Live 6.0.6b1: MIDI Feedback of fired clips in session

[ssilk]

When a clip is launched via MIDI it sends back messages that can be used e.g. for to drive a status LED on a hardware controler. A note with velocity of 126 indicates that a clip is launched, a note with velocity 127 indicates it starts playing and veloctiy 0 means it stopped.

Would it additionally be possible to send a velocity 0 / "stopped" message when a clip changes state from "launched" (prior to it starting to play) to "stopped"? This would also be helpful in driving a status indicator on a hardware controller - for the case where a clip is launched, and then a second clip is launched in the same track before the first one starts playing (aborting the first selected clip).

~S

[ssilk]

When a clip is launched via MIDI it sends back messages that can be used e.g. for to drive a status LED on a hardware controler. A note with velocity of 126 indicates that a clip is launched, a note with velocity 127 indicates it starts playing and veloctiy 0 means it stopped.

Would it additionally be possible to send a velocity 0 / "stopped" message when a clip changes state from "launched" (prior to it starting to play) to "stopped"? This would also be helpful in driving a status indicator on a hardware controller - for the case where a clip is launched, and then a second clip is launched in the same track before the first one starts playing (aborting the first selected clip).

~S

...any thoughts?

[Dj-Grobe]

I really not understand you case, please can explain more?

[Dj-Grobe]

Mr Henke
change introduced on this beta "MIDI Feedback of fired clips in session", be permanent when beta finish, or continue optional?

Its the same, just ask due curiosity : )

Sombody report error, or trouble when use this feature?


Best regards.

[ssilk]

I really not understand you case, please can explain more?

no?

1. in track "1", launch clip "A"
RESULT: clip "A" blinks, will start playing when the next quantize value is reached
2. before clip "A" starts playing, launch a separate clip "B" (also in track "1")
RESULT: clip "A" stops blinking, will no longer start playing - now clip "B" is blinking, will start playing when the next quantize value is reached

currently the following midi msgs are sent:

launch clip "A": 126
launch clip "B": 126
start playing clip "B": 127
...etc.

my point is, when clip "B" is launched (before clip "A" starts playing) it would be nice if velocity 0 could be sent for clip "A", to indicate that it is no longer "armed" and set to play when the next quantize value is reached

~S

[Dj-Grobe]

I not understand what is the real utility of that.
I trying underfstand how much util is that in the reality.

I working developing a controller, midi controller.
When you have mapped in this way:



I dont see why you want 0 in that way.
Example
one button with one led its used for launch any highlighted clip on track, and the idea of midi feedback its show the status of whole track.

Sorry for disapoint you request, but i no see how much util be that, in this case, just make the led indicating the play status of that track, just blink for little time and back to status on, again.

If you expalin how much util can be this improvemnt, its posible ableton implemnt some.
Please sorry for disapoint your idea, i just trying to understand how this can be used.

Best regards.

[ssilk]

and the idea of midi feedback its show the status of whole track

that's not correct, the midi feedback that is being given indicates the status of the individual clip, not of the entire track - though of course you can interpret and use the data in any way that you want - the way I would like to use it is to be able to keep track of the status of individual clips

just make the led indicating the play status of that track, just blink for little time and back to status on, again

that doesn't make any sense - how long is a "little time"? what if the quantize setting for that clip is 10 times as long as "little time"?

I think it'd be a great idea - I mean, technically, if you launch a second clip in the track before the first launched clip starts playing, that first clip is now "stopped" - I thought I'd just propose it as a possible addition, if it's at all feasible (far be it for me to try and guess how all of this is implemented behind the scenes, it may simply not be possible)

~S

[Dj-Grobe]

I think you make some confution of the functions on ableton:


1 if you mapping individaul clips, the midi feedback show the status of individual clips.

2 if you map for shut higlighted clips ON TRACK, you have feedback of track.

Ayyway i sugest install miid analizer and analize the midi feedback, because i think you have that 0 you want, i not have time in the next hours, but soon, i install and send report to you.

At this moment this is the feedback i see days ago after they apply this new fix:

launch clip "A": 126
launch clip "B": 126
stop clip "A": 0 and inmediatly you have 127 start playing clip "B"

This is what you want?
Because if you want this, this its already available on actual version of ableton i can confirm in few hours when have some free time.


Best regards.

[ssilk]

1 if you mapping individaul clips, the midi feedback show the status of individual clips.

2 if you map for shut higlighted clips ON TRACK, you have feedback of track.

...right, it's all in how you implement it, I guess!

At this moment this is the feedback i see days ago after they apply this new fix:

launch clip "A": 126
launch clip "B": 126
stop clip "A": 0 and inmediatly you have 127 start playing clip "B"

This is what you want?
Because if you want this, this its already available on actual version of ableton i can confirm in few hours when have some free time.

yep, that's what I was hoping for - clip A and B are in the same track, of course, and "stop clip A" isn't a user action, but happens automatically when you launch clip B in the same track... as of beta 3 I was not receiving a "stop message" (velocity 0) from clip A when I launched clip B, I will check again as well (and will also check in beta 4)

~S

[ssilk]

At this moment this is the feedback i see days ago after they apply this new fix:

launch clip "A": 126
launch clip "B": 126
stop clip "A": 0 and inmediatly you have 127 start playing clip "B"

This is what you want?
Because if you want this, this its already available on actual version of ableton i can confirm in few hours when have some free time.

yep, that's what I was hoping for - clip A and B are in the same track, of course, and "stop clip A" isn't a user action, but happens automatically when you launch clip B in the same track... as of beta 3 I was not receiving a "stop message" (velocity 0) from clip A when I launched clip B, I will check again as well (and will also check in beta 4)

~S

nope, wasn't this way in beta 3, and it isn't in beta 4, either

here's what occurs:

launch Clip A = 126
launch Clip B (before clip A starts playing) = 126
play Clip B = 127

...there is never a midi message sent with velocity 0 indicating that Clip A "stopped" - of course, it was never playing but still, that is my suggestion, that Clip A in this scenario send a "stopped" / velocity 0 msg

~S

[ssilk]

so what do you guys think - should we be receiving a velocity 0 message from a clip that was launched but was stopped before it ever began playing? is this a bug or a feature request? should I hope that somebody might take a look at it, or should I start looking for an unnecessarily complex workaround?

~S

[Dj-Grobe]

I think that its not usefull on any situation, please dont think bad or heatme for write this, just wrie possible real scenes where this feature be usefull and really needed.
If you do, i thin ableton guys can check this.

[ssilk]

I think that its not usefull on any situation, please dont think bad or heatme for write this, just wrie possible real scenes where this feature be usefull and really needed.

thanks for all of your input, but I'm not really interested in your opinion on whether this is "useful" - the developers instituted a new feature, and I am interested in hearing back from them about whether the behavior I am describing is a defect or if it is a feature request that could be reasonably implemented...

~S

[Dj-Grobe]

THIS IS A FEATURE

BUG:
A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended.

"prevents it from behaving as intended"

THIS ITS NOT A BUG.

ITS A NEW FEATURE : )

If you no have any interest in listen to me or oter guys, and you just want listen to ableton, i sugest send private e-mail to [email protected]
Forum is for exactly this, for send opinion, ideas, make questions.
I no want you turn angered with me or soemthing like that.
I just want know how this can be usefull or how can be used, or how this change improbe something............. but i think its not usefull and no create any improvement on usage, etc etc.
If that is correct, why ableton should change?
I just make this question because if you demostrate how can be usefull, i stay 100% sure they implent this, and you saty very happy.

Anyway i no want killme : ) so this is my last pos referent to your idea :


Best reragrds.

[ssilk]

THIS IS A FEATURE

BUG:
A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended.

"prevents it from behaving as intended"

THIS ITS NOT A BUG.

ITS A NEW FEATURE : )

If you no have any interest in listen to me or oter guys, and you just want listen to ableton, i sugest send private e-mail to [email protected]
Forum is for exactly this, for send opinion, ideas, make questions.
I no want you turn angered with me or soemthing like that.
I just want know how this can be usefull or how can be used, or how this change improbe something............. but i think its not usefull and no create any improvement on usage, etc etc.
If that is correct, why ableton should change?
I just make this question because if you demostrate how can be usefull, i stay 100% sure they implent this, and you saty very happy.

Anyway i no want killme : ) so this is my last pos referent to your idea :


Best reragrds.

I apologize, I didn't realize that you were a developer on the Ableton team, that you are able to speak for the company and definitively answer that the behavior I am describing is the way that the new midi feedback feature is intended to work, and that it can't / won't be designed any other way (i.e. that "stopping" a "launched" clip that has not yet "started" does not send a velocity 0 message) - thanks for clearing that up...

and I'm surprised that you think I'm not interested in listening to you - I have been listening to you, it's hard not to, since you keep saying the same thing over and over again (which you really don't need to do) - rather, you should ask yourself whether you've listened at all to me... all you have been able to talk about is what _you_ want / what's useful for _you_ - I don't know if you've realized, but you aren't the only Live user in the Western Hemisphere, the rest of us might have some desired functionality we'd like to see implemented as well, whether or not you deem it "useful"

anyways, I'm sure we've successfully mucked up this topic enough to ensure that my question will never be answered - hopefully somebody will take a look at this in passing one day and think purposefullly on it

I don't hate you, Mr. Grobe, but you need to chill out!

~S