is it really worth spending more for mac?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:19 pm

Shhhh. Show some revernce here please fellow dumb PC user. I believe the response to that one goes along the (yawn) lines of.......

Alex Reynolds · Post by **Alex Reynolds** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:46 pm

Anonymous wrote:get over it Alex. With Apple, there is ONE supplier, basically one price for each model, and a limited number of models, each with parts from ONE company.

No different with a PC laptop...

What, you think PC laptops are any less proprietary? You think Toshiba can sell you a battery that will fit in a Dell? Or that Dell would even allow that? Clearly you must be a dumb PC user if you think those vendors will ever allow you to buy laptop components cheaply. At the very least ignorant of how the system works.

If you're buying a desktop, the only two proprietary parts in a Mac are the motherboard and processor. Everything else is an off-shelf component you can buy at Mom + Pop's Spare Parts Emporium.

If you want a factory-built machine with a warranty, you'll spend as much on a PC as on a Mac, more or less, for equivalent features and specs.

I've put up plenty of examples of this in the past and still you argue this, as if you say the opposite often enough you'll somehow convince yourself otherwise.

Basically, asking for a reason to buy a Mac when you have already decided to buy a PC is kind of rude. Don't be shocked to get a response you don't like.

If you want to be a Windows fundie, fine, but don't come here and try to blame Mac users for poor decision making skills.

Somehow learn to be happy with your decision and leave us alone.

Some of us are quite happy using Macs for lots of creative work, music included.

Don't feel obligated to rationalize your choice by trashing us, and don't pretend to be surprised when some of us respond by telling you off in return.

Stop bitching and grow up. These threads are tiresome as fuck.

-Alex

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:25 pm

But OSX feels so much better than Windows.

I think a Mac laptop is worth 1500 quid, but a PC laptop that'd run Live at a similar or maybe even better level isn't worth the 1000 quid it'd cost - to me. Does that make sense at all? It makes perfect sense to me.

-Paws

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:41 am

And there we have it.

Gluglu · Post by **Gluglu** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:21 am

If you want to be a Windows fundie, fine, but don't come here and try to blame Mac users for poor decision making skills.

Erm, and if you want to be a Jobs fundamentalist fine also. I think you'll find that it's you endlessly inferring ad-tedium the converse chum with regard "poor decision making skills" assuming you actually assimilate what it is that you write.

Somehow learn to be happy with your decision and leave us alone.

Have a little try at that one yourslef while we're at it then.

Some of us are quite happy using Macs for lots of creative work, music included.

Likewise. And stop fooling yourself that you have some little nuggets of wisdom that millions upon millions of PC users are too thick to work out.

Don't feel obligated to rationalize your choice by trashing us, and don't pretend to be surprised when some of us respond by telling you off in return.

That cuts both ways bud, you're not the font of all wisdom that you like to think that you are. It obviously makes your day better judging by the amount of energy you put into finding "examples" that PC users (you know the people who use them) are obviously too dim to have taken into consideration in your view.

Stop bitching and grow up. These threads are tiresome as fuck.

Okay, I'll try and get the PC users who bitch and need to grow up to do so if you can arrange for arrogant and patronising Mac users like yourself who seem to think that they have bought into the tree of all knowledge to sort their act out. Deal?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:43 am

Alex Reynolds wrote: If you want a factory-built machine with a warranty, you'll spend as much on a PC as on a Mac, more or less, for equivalent features and specs.

that's simply wrong. The company i work for just bought a dell 2.4 P4, complete package with tft 3years collect-return warr..etc etc...for about £700 which would be about 2ce that for mac equiv.

Alex Reynolds wrote: Basically, asking for a reason to buy a Mac when you have already decided to buy a PC is kind of rude. Don't be shocked to get a response you don't like.

-Alex
dont quite get that.....surely if a person asks it's because they would like to know if there are any good reasons they don't know about, hence the need to even mention it in the first place

sixela · Post by **sixela** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:50 am

Maybe if we had these kind of debates about Beta vs VHS, Beta viewers might have got to see more films than 'Ishtar' and one part of star wars.

It''d make about as much sense as this unbelievable pile of shite.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:52 am

And this is the guy that calls PC users Bills' knob-polishers telling others to grow up!!??

freind2 · Post by **freind2** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:12 am

for live, i use PC, because my mac is too slow. Anyone got the live bench tests for a g5?

sixela · Post by **sixela** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:21 am

well,so far this thread only seems to have demonstrated that some mac users feel a powerful need to put their case forward - like they need to convince themselves that they didn't waste their money, so in turn we hear all kinds of strange reasoning from intelligent people, like world domination by microsoft or giant lizards and other equally deluded, paranoid or self important crap.

I think I'll keep my PC, I think macs look cool and definitely have style, and if I had money to burn I'd buy one, but so far no-one's managed to convince me that there's any vaguely rational reason why I should consider getting one and take such a drop in processing power.

The difference in cost bought me Live, Reason 2.5, Reaktor session,Fruityloops and Vokator.

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:09 am

sixela wrote:well,so far this thread only seems to have demonstrated that some mac users feel a powerful need to put their case forward - like they need to convince themselves that they didn't waste their money,

That is just an ignorant statement. That would be like me saying - like the pc users are just jealous they wasted their money on a shitty windows machine. It's simply not true and an imflamatory statement.

Edit: I missed the word "some" mac users in your statement.

I've wanted a laptop for at least a year now. I probably could have pulled off a windows machine about six months ago but decided to wait for a mac. It's looking like I may be in a 15" 1.25 ghz powerbook as early as two weeks. The thing starts at $2600.00, drops to $2300.00 after my student discount, I dropped the dvd writer because I don't need or want it and that drops another 200.00 from the price. I also opted for a 60 gig hd as opposed to the 80 gig hd and in the end I am looking at $2000.00. Expensive? Yes, especially for a part time food service worker full time student like myself. Elite club my ass. I decided to make the sacrafice to wait untill I could get an apple rather then opt for something I didn't want and I will consider it money well spent.

I began using apple almost three years ago when I started studying graphic design. After speaking with people in the field I found that the majority of design professionals are using macs. So I bought one. I have since decided that I will never switch back to a windows machine.

sixela wrote:so in turn we hear all kinds of strange reasoning from intelligent people, like world domination by microsoft or giant lizards and other equally deluded, paranoid or self important crap.

I have to say I agree with you there. Didn't quite see how any of that was relevant.

sixela wrote:I think I'll keep my PC, I think macs look cool and definitely have style, and if I had money to burn I'd buy one, but so far no-one's managed to convince me that there's any vaguely rational reason why I should consider getting one and take such a drop in processing power.

Good for you, and more power to you. I am not sure I agree with taking a drop in processor power, perhaps with the exception of live.

sixela wrote:The difference in cost bought me Live, Reason 2.5, Reaktor session,Fruityloops and Vokator.

These are also valid points. A consumer level windows machine will cost much less.

Then again....

One you go mac you never go back.

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:12 am

Oh, and to answer the original question- Yes, in my honest opinion a Macintosh is well worth the extra money.

jho · Post by **jho** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:14 am

PC's and Macs are both cool.

PC's are fast and cheap, and Mac's have the best operating system.

"If both are utilized toward their strengths rather their weaknesses then they are a mighty combination, grasshoppa! "

PS: If I could only have one, it would defintely be a Mac tho!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:45 am

Oh, and to answer the original question- Yes, in my honest opinion a Macintosh is well worth the extra money.

Hi Smutek. I don't think that any of the PC users chipping in here disagree that Macs are obviously great machines. I own one as well as a PC laptop even. That's not what sparks this bullshit off on this forum off time and time again, as far as I see on this thread it's not the PC users that are whining and trying to score point. The underlying tone that the poster(s) is the only person on the planet that could possibly have this information(?) before they made their decision and get called Bills' knob polisher for doing so into the bargain.

If somone comes onto this forum and asks what computer would be the wiser move I think we can assume that they wish to run Live on it and are making the enquiry based on such. Seems a pretty fair assumption, no?

Okay. So, based on that assumption what is a common complaint when running Live on a Mac in these forums? It comes up time and time again regardless of who's fault it is that this is the case. Right, Live doesn't run anywhere near as good on a Mac as it does on a PC and many users would like this remedied.

The remedy? If someone wants to run Live in a system with tracks to spare, without running out of steam (you may not but many users do and is one reason why I have a PC laptop for this task), where the processor can even be upgraded later of need be (yes, even on my laptop). where you get the choice of an absolute boatload of free, and not free, plugins are released on a weekly basis, has choice of hardware who's drivers are usually attended to before the Mac versions because of the vast numbers of users, has innumerable choices of companies competing to drive prices down into the bargain. What is the fair recommendation for someone who wants to run Live? It's a PC, I'm sorry but it is.

Even if Apple offered a solid gold version of their current hardware it still wouldn't run live as slickly as a PC that WILL outperform and IS cheaper than any Mac currently on offer ESPECIALLY a laptop. Macs "may" be better built (that's a choice and tradeoff that is possible with a PC), they "may" be more stable (I've seen Macs crash, you've seen Macs crash, Windows is just as stable as OSX in my experience) but which one will Live perform better on (yes, maybe Live should be more optimized for Mac but it isn't so that's the end of that one)?

Right. So there is our answer then. I even think this was mentioned as an answer a few times in this thread by PC users... If someone feels they would like to be running a Mac and it would make them happy and it will run the apps they need to their satisfaction and that they wish to pay the premium buying into a Mac affords (justified as they are well built machines with a slick OS but with no lightweight options comparitively) then fine, buy what makes you happy, it's your money. Enjoy a wonderful machine.

But Live will run better on the other platform and that is simply the way it is. I KNOW that it does, it's the very reason I have a PC laptop now and it flies compared to any Mac I have run Live on. And I have not had ONE stability issue not to mention it was FAR less expensive than any Mac laptop I could get hold of except a doubly outdated model (the current Mac laptops are already outdated imo).

These are not illusions, these are the findings of someone who runs both systems. Wnat to run Live on the system it performs better on as we are sitting here, the answer is a PC. Have a special need or reason for running a Mac such as Logic maybe? Then a Mac it is then or maybe even both as I have done.

It's not the argument of which platform is "better" that is going on here that sparks the stupid side of this debate each and every time is it? It's the ponitificating and ramming down the throat in some superior fashion that you must be a fuckwit just becasue you are running a PC for any reason. A billion advertisements showing Sony laptops with 1Ghz CPU's at exhorbitant prices won't make Live run any faster on a Mac no matter how many times it is pulled. You can almost feel the person stroking their machine and getting an erection as they scurry off to Google and find another "example" to add weight to their argument, having missed the point completely. You can almost hear the Muttley style laugh and brushing of the medal on the chest after the "Submit" button is pressed with the same jaded nonsense and patronising tone.

FACT: Live runs better by quite some margin on PC hardware that costs considerably cheaper than what Apple offer. You have the option to buy expensive PC kit, you have the option to buy less expensive kit foregoing maybe a nice hardy silver casing or a few peripherals that have sweet FA to do with live. I chose the former and it's all been running fine and with the difference saved had enough to buy a cheap 17" flat screen monitor (I can even dual screen on the lappie with it), an external hard drive and Reason and it STILL came out less expensive than a decent Mac laptop and it STILL pisses on said Mac performance wise.

sixela · Post by **sixela** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:09 pm

smutek wrote: I began using apple almost three years ago when I started studying graphic design. After speaking with people in the field I found that the majority of design professionals are using macs. So I bought one. I have since decided that I will never switch back to a windows machine.

All the designers I know use mac primarily, but they all have both (if they do web stuff) as they have to know how it will look for both. I know some musicians who use mac and definitely see why it still gets seen as the professional choice, but personally think this is more because the pros started off on mac in the days when you had to and just still do now because it's what they're used to.
........

smutek wrote: One you go mac you never go back.

I started on mac, and so did the studio I work in and it was such a relief to go to PC and have rendering take about a 20th of the time because the price of macs kept us for too long on powermacs that just weren't very fast, to the point where now if we need a new machine for anything we ask the boss and he just gets another PC because they are so cheap it's like nothing. When we were on mac you had to make do with the machine you had regardless of what you were asking of it.

I'll say again, if I had money to burn and I could afford the most powerful dual G5 then I'd do it because they are lovely and I like them, but i thought buying good audio apps that work fine on my PC laptop was more of a priority, and I think alot of musicians out there would go alot further with a PC.

Just owning a mac doesn't make you a professional, using as many apps as you can to build up your knowledge and experience do, move to mac when you get your first big royalty cheque and you can afford to.

It's like buying a ferari when you can only afford a ford.