How to I will make tthe best techno mp3s?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.

You can make the best techno mp3 with Max and Ableton 6 integration?

You definitely need max and jazzlemur setup?
8
53%
Only just Max MSP for techno. Just use it and make mp3s then.
5
33%
Just use Max and Ableton Live 6 setup for techno?
2
13%
 
Total votes: 15

smutek
Posts: 4490
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:30 pm
Location: Baltimore,United States

Post by smutek » Tue May 08, 2007 3:07 am

Well, if we've done anything here it seems we've ran EVIL out of his own thread.

8)

cosmosuave
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:36 am
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by cosmosuave » Tue May 08, 2007 3:16 am

smutek wrote:Well, if we've done anything here it seems we've ran EVIL out of his own thread.

8)

HOORAY!!!!!!

Image
MD SPS-1 DARKENERGY JX-3P (PG200) Mbase01
http://soundcloud.com/cosmosuave
http://www.cosmosuave.com/

EvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:18 pm

Post by EvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil » Tue May 08, 2007 4:46 am

Yes, this is very interest. I especially enjoy the first part about Pong. So, if anyone would like to demonstate making techno mp3 tell me so.

So far I have in my setup:

* ABC-24
* Actrix Computer Corp. Actrix (Access Matrix)
* Advanced Digital Corporation Super Six
* MITS Altair 8800
* Altos 580
* Amstrad CPC 464 (w/DDI-1 disk drive interface), 664, 6128
* Amstrad PCW 8256/8512/9512
* Amust Executive 816
* Apple II (with Microsoft Z80 Softcard)
* Aster CT-80
* Atari 800 (with ATR8000 module)
* Atari ST

B

* BBC Micro (with external Z80 module)
* Beehive Topper II
* Bigboard
* BMC IF800
* Bondwell 12, 14
* BT Merlin M4000 series based on Logica Kennett (Concurrent CP/M-86)

C

* Casio FP1000 FL
* Comart Communicator (CP/M-80), C-Frame, K-Frame, Workstation and Quad (Concurrent CP/M-86)
* Commodore 64 (with an infamously poor Z80 plug-in cartridge)
* Commodore 128 (with a Z80 on board along with its 8502, ran CP/M+ which supported memory paging)
* Compis
* Compupro
* Cromemco
* Cub-Z - Romanian made computer

D

* Datamax UV-1R
* DEC Rainbow-100/100+ (could run both CP/M and CP/M-86)
* DEC VT180 (aka Personal Computing Option, aka 'Robin')

E

* Epson PX-4, PX-8 (Geneva), QX-10, QX-16
* Exidy Sorcerer
* Eagle Computer Eagle I, II, III, IV, V
* ELWRO 800 Junior Polish clone of Sinclair ZX spectrum -- running CP/J, a CP/M derivative with simple networking abilities
* Enterprise 128 (with EXDOS/IS-DOS extensions)

F

* Ferguson Big Board

G

* Grundy NewBrain

H

* HBN Computer (Le) Guépard
* HC-2000
* Heath/Zenith H90 and H89
* Hewlett-Packard HP-87 (with addition of CP/M Module containing Z80)
* Hewlett-Packard HP-125 and HP-120, one Z80 each for CP/M and the inherent HP terminal
* Hobbit
* Husky Computers Ltd Hunter (1 and 2, 16), Hawk
* Holborn 6100

I

* Ibex 7150 and other models
* IBM PC
* IMSAI 8080
* Intel MDS-80
* Intertec Superbrain
* Iotec
* Iskra Delta Partner
* Ivel Ultra

J

* JET-80 (Swedish Made Computer)

K

* Kaypro

L

* LOBO Max-80
* Logica VTS Kennet (Concurrent CP/M-86)
* LNW-80

M

* MCP (128K, Z80, S-100 bus)
* Applied Technology MicroBee (56KB+ RAM models)
* Megatel Quark
* Micromation M/System, Mariner and MiSystem
* Morrow Designs (MD2, MD3, MD11)
* MSX (some MSX-standard machines ran the CP/M-like MSX-DOS)
* Mycron 3

N

* Nascom 1, 2
* NCR Decision mate V
* NEC APC
* NEC PC-8800
* Nelma Persona
* NorthStar Advantage (all in one computer)
* NorthStar Horizon (S-100)
* Nokia MikroMikko 1

O

* Olivetti ETV300
* Olivetti M20 (CP/M-8000)
* Osborne 1
* Osborne Executive
* Osborne Vixen
* Otrona Attaché
* Otrona Attaché 8:16

P

* P112
* Philips P2000T
* Piccolo [1]
* Piccoline [2]
* Polymorphic Systems 8813
* Processor Technology Sol-20 (optional)

Q

* Quasar Data Products QDP-300

R

* RAIR "Black Box"
* Research Machines 380Z and Link 480Z

S

* SAM Coupé - (Pro-Dos = CP/M 2.2)
* Sanyo MBC-1150
* Scandis
* Seequa Chameleon
* Sharp MZ- series
* Sirius 1 (sold in the U.S. as the Victor 9000)
* Software Publisher's ATR8000
* Sony SMC-70
* SORD CP/M as an option for the 8 bit models, CP/M-68K standard for the M68/M68MX
* Spectravideo SV-318/328
* ZX Spectrum +3 (built by Amstrad)

T

* Tandy TRS-80 Model II, Model 4, Model 4P
* Televideo TS-80x Series
* Texas Instruments TI-99/4A (with the MorningStar CP/M card or the Foundation CP/M card)
* Toshiba T100

U

* (none entered)

V

* Vector06c (Intel 8080, 16 color graphics, made in USSR)
* Victor 9000 (sold as the Sirius 1 in Europe)
* Visual 1050

W

* (none entered)

X

* Xerox 820

Y

* Yodobashi Formula-1

Z

* Zenith Data Systems Z89 (aka Heathkit H89)
* Zenith Data Systems Z-100
* Zorba


Can I make techno mp3 with any of this??
Image

Star Power!

cosmosuave
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:36 am
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by cosmosuave » Tue May 08, 2007 4:57 am

Do You Play Ping Pong?
MD SPS-1 DARKENERGY JX-3P (PG200) Mbase01
http://soundcloud.com/cosmosuave
http://www.cosmosuave.com/

Tone Deft
Posts: 24152
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Post by Tone Deft » Tue May 08, 2007 4:58 am

Do you know how many games of ping pong you could've played instead of making that list?
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

knotkranky
Posts: 4336
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: la

Post by knotkranky » Tue May 08, 2007 6:13 am

EvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil wrote:Yes, this is very interest. I especially enjoy the first part about Pong. So, if anyone would like to demonstate making techno mp3 tell me so.

So far I have in my setup:

* ABC-24
* Actrix Computer Corp. Actrix (Access Matrix)
* Advanced Digital Corporation Super Six
* MITS Altair 8800
* Altos 580
* Amstrad CPC 464 (w/DDI-1 disk drive interface), 664, 6128
* Amstrad PCW 8256/8512/9512
* Amust Executive 816
* Apple II (with Microsoft Z80 Softcard)
* Aster CT-80
* Atari 800 (with ATR8000 module)
* Atari ST

B

* BBC Micro (with external Z80 module)
* Beehive Topper II
* Bigboard
* BMC IF800
* Bondwell 12, 14
* BT Merlin M4000 series based on Logica Kennett (Concurrent CP/M-86)

C

* Casio FP1000 FL
* Comart Communicator (CP/M-80), C-Frame, K-Frame, Workstation and Quad (Concurrent CP/M-86)
* Commodore 64 (with an infamously poor Z80 plug-in cartridge)
* Commodore 128 (with a Z80 on board along with its 8502, ran CP/M+ which supported memory paging)
* Compis
* Compupro
* Cromemco
* Cub-Z - Romanian made computer

D

* Datamax UV-1R
* DEC Rainbow-100/100+ (could run both CP/M and CP/M-86)
* DEC VT180 (aka Personal Computing Option, aka 'Robin')

E

* Epson PX-4, PX-8 (Geneva), QX-10, QX-16
* Exidy Sorcerer
* Eagle Computer Eagle I, II, III, IV, V
* ELWRO 800 Junior Polish clone of Sinclair ZX spectrum -- running CP/J, a CP/M derivative with simple networking abilities
* Enterprise 128 (with EXDOS/IS-DOS extensions)

F

* Ferguson Big Board

G

* Grundy NewBrain

H

* HBN Computer (Le) Guépard
* HC-2000
* Heath/Zenith H90 and H89
* Hewlett-Packard HP-87 (with addition of CP/M Module containing Z80)
* Hewlett-Packard HP-125 and HP-120, one Z80 each for CP/M and the inherent HP terminal
* Hobbit
* Husky Computers Ltd Hunter (1 and 2, 16), Hawk
* Holborn 6100

I

* Ibex 7150 and other models
* IBM PC
* IMSAI 8080
* Intel MDS-80
* Intertec Superbrain
* Iotec
* Iskra Delta Partner
* Ivel Ultra

J

* JET-80 (Swedish Made Computer)

K

* Kaypro

L

* LOBO Max-80
* Logica VTS Kennet (Concurrent CP/M-86)
* LNW-80

M

* MCP (128K, Z80, S-100 bus)
* Applied Technology MicroBee (56KB+ RAM models)
* Megatel Quark
* Micromation M/System, Mariner and MiSystem
* Morrow Designs (MD2, MD3, MD11)
* MSX (some MSX-standard machines ran the CP/M-like MSX-DOS)
* Mycron 3

N

* Nascom 1, 2
* NCR Decision mate V
* NEC APC
* NEC PC-8800
* Nelma Persona
* NorthStar Advantage (all in one computer)
* NorthStar Horizon (S-100)
* Nokia MikroMikko 1

O

* Olivetti ETV300
* Olivetti M20 (CP/M-8000)
* Osborne 1
* Osborne Executive
* Osborne Vixen
* Otrona Attaché
* Otrona Attaché 8:16

P

* P112
* Philips P2000T
* Piccolo [1]
* Piccoline [2]
* Polymorphic Systems 8813
* Processor Technology Sol-20 (optional)

Q

* Quasar Data Products QDP-300

R

* RAIR "Black Box"
* Research Machines 380Z and Link 480Z

S

* SAM Coupé - (Pro-Dos = CP/M 2.2)
* Sanyo MBC-1150
* Scandis
* Seequa Chameleon
* Sharp MZ- series
* Sirius 1 (sold in the U.S. as the Victor 9000)
* Software Publisher's ATR8000
* Sony SMC-70
* SORD CP/M as an option for the 8 bit models, CP/M-68K standard for the M68/M68MX
* Spectravideo SV-318/328
* ZX Spectrum +3 (built by Amstrad)

T

* Tandy TRS-80 Model II, Model 4, Model 4P
* Televideo TS-80x Series
* Texas Instruments TI-99/4A (with the MorningStar CP/M card or the Foundation CP/M card)
* Toshiba T100

U

* (none entered)

V

* Vector06c (Intel 8080, 16 color graphics, made in USSR)
* Victor 9000 (sold as the Sirius 1 in Europe)
* Visual 1050

W

* (none entered)

X

* Xerox 820

Y

* Yodobashi Formula-1

Z

* Zenith Data Systems Z89 (aka Heathkit H89)
* Zenith Data Systems Z-100
* Zorba


Can I make techno mp3 with any of this??
Ya know, we've helped you out a bunch on all kinds of questions about your music for a while now.

Where's the music?

Anyway, the answer to your question is probably not.

lunabass
Posts: 996
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:13 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Post by lunabass » Tue May 08, 2007 7:06 am

Some Advice.

Use the lowest bitrate possible when making your techno mp3's.
You most definitely need to Pong to make techno.

Hope this helps
Love
lunabass
:: STAK ::
Music for Visual Media
www.staksounds.com
@staksounds

Pitch Black
Posts: 6722
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 2:18 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Pitch Black » Tue May 08, 2007 11:40 am

EvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil wrote:Yes, this is very interest. I especially enjoy the first part about Pong. So, if anyone would like to demonstate making techno mp3 tell me so.

So far I have in my setup:

* ABC-24
* Actrix Computer Corp. Actrix (Access Matrix)
* Advanced Digital Corporation Super Six
* MITS Altair 8800
* Altos 580
* Amstrad CPC 464 (w/DDI-1 disk drive interface), 664, 6128
* Amstrad PCW 8256/8512/9512
* Amust Executive 816
* Apple II (with Microsoft Z80 Softcard)
* Aster CT-80
* Atari 800 (with ATR8000 module)
* Atari ST

B

* BBC Micro (with external Z80 module)
* Beehive Topper II
* Bigboard
* BMC IF800
* Bondwell 12, 14
* BT Merlin M4000 series based on Logica Kennett (Concurrent CP/M-86)

C

* Casio FP1000 FL
* Comart Communicator (CP/M-80), C-Frame, K-Frame, Workstation and Quad (Concurrent CP/M-86)
* Commodore 64 (with an infamously poor Z80 plug-in cartridge)
* Commodore 128 (with a Z80 on board along with its 8502, ran CP/M+ which supported memory paging)
* Compis
* Compupro
* Cromemco
* Cub-Z - Romanian made computer

D

* Datamax UV-1R
* DEC Rainbow-100/100+ (could run both CP/M and CP/M-86)
* DEC VT180 (aka Personal Computing Option, aka 'Robin')

E

* Epson PX-4, PX-8 (Geneva), QX-10, QX-16
* Exidy Sorcerer
* Eagle Computer Eagle I, II, III, IV, V
* ELWRO 800 Junior Polish clone of Sinclair ZX spectrum -- running CP/J, a CP/M derivative with simple networking abilities
* Enterprise 128 (with EXDOS/IS-DOS extensions)

F

* Ferguson Big Board

G

* Grundy NewBrain

H

* HBN Computer (Le) Guépard
* HC-2000
* Heath/Zenith H90 and H89
* Hewlett-Packard HP-87 (with addition of CP/M Module containing Z80)
* Hewlett-Packard HP-125 and HP-120, one Z80 each for CP/M and the inherent HP terminal
* Hobbit
* Husky Computers Ltd Hunter (1 and 2, 16), Hawk
* Holborn 6100

I

* Ibex 7150 and other models
* IBM PC
* IMSAI 8080
* Intel MDS-80
* Intertec Superbrain
* Iotec
* Iskra Delta Partner
* Ivel Ultra

J

* JET-80 (Swedish Made Computer)

K

* Kaypro

L

* LOBO Max-80
* Logica VTS Kennet (Concurrent CP/M-86)
* LNW-80

M

* MCP (128K, Z80, S-100 bus)
* Applied Technology MicroBee (56KB+ RAM models)
* Megatel Quark
* Micromation M/System, Mariner and MiSystem
* Morrow Designs (MD2, MD3, MD11)
* MSX (some MSX-standard machines ran the CP/M-like MSX-DOS)
* Mycron 3

N

* Nascom 1, 2
* NCR Decision mate V
* NEC APC
* NEC PC-8800
* Nelma Persona
* NorthStar Advantage (all in one computer)
* NorthStar Horizon (S-100)
* Nokia MikroMikko 1

O

* Olivetti ETV300
* Olivetti M20 (CP/M-8000)
* Osborne 1
* Osborne Executive
* Osborne Vixen
* Otrona Attaché
* Otrona Attaché 8:16

P

* P112
* Philips P2000T
* Piccolo [1]
* Piccoline [2]
* Polymorphic Systems 8813
* Processor Technology Sol-20 (optional)

Q

* Quasar Data Products QDP-300

R

* RAIR "Black Box"
* Research Machines 380Z and Link 480Z

S

* SAM Coupé - (Pro-Dos = CP/M 2.2)
* Sanyo MBC-1150
* Scandis
* Seequa Chameleon
* Sharp MZ- series
* Sirius 1 (sold in the U.S. as the Victor 9000)
* Software Publisher's ATR8000
* Sony SMC-70
* SORD CP/M as an option for the 8 bit models, CP/M-68K standard for the M68/M68MX
* Spectravideo SV-318/328
* ZX Spectrum +3 (built by Amstrad)

T

* Tandy TRS-80 Model II, Model 4, Model 4P
* Televideo TS-80x Series
* Texas Instruments TI-99/4A (with the MorningStar CP/M card or the Foundation CP/M card)
* Toshiba T100

U

* (none entered)

V

* Vector06c (Intel 8080, 16 color graphics, made in USSR)
* Victor 9000 (sold as the Sirius 1 in Europe)
* Visual 1050

W

* (none entered)

X

* Xerox 820

Y

* Yodobashi Formula-1

Z

* Zenith Data Systems Z89 (aka Heathkit H89)
* Zenith Data Systems Z-100
* Zorba


Can I make techno mp3 with any of this??

No.

You need a Mac.
MBP M1Max | Sonoma 14.7 | Live 12.1 | Babyface Pro FS | Push 3T | clump of controllers
Soundcloud
Ableton Certified Trainer

OvertoneZero
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:16 pm

Post by OvertoneZero » Tue May 08, 2007 1:28 pm

EvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil wrote:Yes, this is very interest. I especially enjoy the first part about Pong. So, if anyone would like to demonstate making techno mp3 tell me so.

So far I have in my setup:

* ABC-24
* Actrix Computer Corp. Actrix (Access Matrix)
* Advanced Digital Corporation Super Six
* MITS Altair 8800
* Altos 580
* Amstrad CPC 464 (w/DDI-1 disk drive interface), 664, 6128
* Amstrad PCW 8256/8512/9512
* Amust Executive 816
* Apple II (with Microsoft Z80 Softcard)
* Aster CT-80
* Atari 800 (with ATR8000 module)
* Atari ST

B

* BBC Micro (with external Z80 module)
* Beehive Topper II
* Bigboard
* BMC IF800
* Bondwell 12, 14
* BT Merlin M4000 series based on Logica Kennett (Concurrent CP/M-86)

C

* Casio FP1000 FL
* Comart Communicator (CP/M-80), C-Frame, K-Frame, Workstation and Quad (Concurrent CP/M-86)
* Commodore 64 (with an infamously poor Z80 plug-in cartridge)
* Commodore 128 (with a Z80 on board along with its 8502, ran CP/M+ which supported memory paging)
* Compis
* Compupro
* Cromemco
* Cub-Z - Romanian made computer

D

* Datamax UV-1R
* DEC Rainbow-100/100+ (could run both CP/M and CP/M-86)
* DEC VT180 (aka Personal Computing Option, aka 'Robin')

E

* Epson PX-4, PX-8 (Geneva), QX-10, QX-16
* Exidy Sorcerer
* Eagle Computer Eagle I, II, III, IV, V
* ELWRO 800 Junior Polish clone of Sinclair ZX spectrum -- running CP/J, a CP/M derivative with simple networking abilities
* Enterprise 128 (with EXDOS/IS-DOS extensions)

F

* Ferguson Big Board

G

* Grundy NewBrain

H

* HBN Computer (Le) Guépard
* HC-2000
* Heath/Zenith H90 and H89
* Hewlett-Packard HP-87 (with addition of CP/M Module containing Z80)
* Hewlett-Packard HP-125 and HP-120, one Z80 each for CP/M and the inherent HP terminal
* Hobbit
* Husky Computers Ltd Hunter (1 and 2, 16), Hawk
* Holborn 6100

I

* Ibex 7150 and other models
* IBM PC
* IMSAI 8080
* Intel MDS-80
* Intertec Superbrain
* Iotec
* Iskra Delta Partner
* Ivel Ultra

J

* JET-80 (Swedish Made Computer)

K

* Kaypro

L

* LOBO Max-80
* Logica VTS Kennet (Concurrent CP/M-86)
* LNW-80

M

* MCP (128K, Z80, S-100 bus)
* Applied Technology MicroBee (56KB+ RAM models)
* Megatel Quark
* Micromation M/System, Mariner and MiSystem
* Morrow Designs (MD2, MD3, MD11)
* MSX (some MSX-standard machines ran the CP/M-like MSX-DOS)
* Mycron 3

N

* Nascom 1, 2
* NCR Decision mate V
* NEC APC
* NEC PC-8800
* Nelma Persona
* NorthStar Advantage (all in one computer)
* NorthStar Horizon (S-100)
* Nokia MikroMikko 1

O

* Olivetti ETV300
* Olivetti M20 (CP/M-8000)
* Osborne 1
* Osborne Executive
* Osborne Vixen
* Otrona Attaché
* Otrona Attaché 8:16

P

* P112
* Philips P2000T
* Piccolo [1]
* Piccoline [2]
* Polymorphic Systems 8813
* Processor Technology Sol-20 (optional)

Q

* Quasar Data Products QDP-300

R

* RAIR "Black Box"
* Research Machines 380Z and Link 480Z

S

* SAM Coupé - (Pro-Dos = CP/M 2.2)
* Sanyo MBC-1150
* Scandis
* Seequa Chameleon
* Sharp MZ- series
* Sirius 1 (sold in the U.S. as the Victor 9000)
* Software Publisher's ATR8000
* Sony SMC-70
* SORD CP/M as an option for the 8 bit models, CP/M-68K standard for the M68/M68MX
* Spectravideo SV-318/328
* ZX Spectrum +3 (built by Amstrad)

T

* Tandy TRS-80 Model II, Model 4, Model 4P
* Televideo TS-80x Series
* Texas Instruments TI-99/4A (with the MorningStar CP/M card or the Foundation CP/M card)
* Toshiba T100

U

* (none entered)

V

* Vector06c (Intel 8080, 16 color graphics, made in USSR)
* Victor 9000 (sold as the Sirius 1 in Europe)
* Visual 1050

W

* (none entered)

X

* Xerox 820

Y

* Yodobashi Formula-1

Z

* Zenith Data Systems Z89 (aka Heathkit H89)
* Zenith Data Systems Z-100
* Zorba


Can I make techno mp3 with any of this??


I think yes, now you can make techno now with these setup. I think that if you want more probability, you can trade Exidy Sorcercer fornew kits.

forge
Posts: 17422
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:47 am
Location: Queensland, AU
Contact:

Post by forge » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:04 am

pulsoc wrote:
Mr. Computer Dude wrote:To make the best music, you need the newest equipment. Buying the Lemur is a step in the right direction.

Be sure to hang out on internet forums to keep tabs on the newest gear, though, so you can remain in a constant state of reconfiguring your setup until, one day, you notice a wrinkle in the mirror -- and you've still never gotten around to making music anybody likes, and nobody likes electronic anymore -- all the cute young things like the indie rock now.
This hits a little too close to home to be funny.
8O absolutely!

and I pong, very much

forge
Posts: 17422
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:47 am
Location: Queensland, AU
Contact:

Post by forge » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:07 am

knotkranky wrote:
EvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil wrote: * Spectravideo SV-318/328
I had one of these

I successfully made it beep and draw a coloured dot that travelled from one corner of the screen to the diagonal opposite corner

so it really depends on what you consider techno or pong

STRATEGY_510
Posts: 825
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:48 pm
Location: Oakland, Killafoolya

Post by STRATEGY_510 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:07 am

smutek wrote:
ethios4 wrote:
smutek wrote:Do You Play Ping Pong?
Do You Play Ping Pong?
Do you play Ping Pong?

Fellas, stop being so fucking juvenile.

It's called Table Tennis, not Ping-Pong!

jesus...


STRATEGY

hacktheplanet
Posts: 2846
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Post by hacktheplanet » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:18 am

You have a KAYPRO?! The first computer I ever used was a Kaypro II. My parents had one in the 80s.
Image

brightonalex
Posts: 1381
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:30 pm

EvilEvilEvil

Post by brightonalex » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:03 am

It would be helpful to have a bit more information.

Specifically, do you ping pong?

Post Reply