Waves piracy lawsuit blues - don't get $$$CREWED

KU · Post by KU » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:59 pm

Hillary Clinton wrote:It is always interesting to watch people stand back and talk big when it is someone else in the grinder.

Believe me, if you are targeted by a much larger interest as is the case here, you are in the deepest of all trouble and there will be no justice for you.

This form of privileged vigilantism is not unique to Waves or the RIAA but is exercised all too often in the corporate world and severely circumvents the rights of individuals BY INTENT. The purpose is to instill fear to attempt to increase profits.

There is no way to directly confront these scenarios and you should pray that it does not land on you. Mistakes can and will be made and essentially once your name gets on the list you will be persecuted with extreme prejudice because once on their list you are a lowly pirate that is just destroying the industry. In this case, I am betting someone with a personal vendetta turned him in and prompted the visit.

This should all sound really familiar as it is the same ideology (minus the violence) by extremist regimes of present and past. Turn your enemies into the SS and let them take care of them ... yikes!

How to really fight these companies?
- Do not use their software in any form, not even demos.
- Do not purchase their software
- Be clear in forums/blogs that the licensing and corporate behavior of the company is reprehensible and that you take a great risk in dealing with them and also perpetuate their behavior.
- OFFER ALTERNATIVEs!!!! Promote the software from well behaved companies that have a respect for their user community. Every time yiy see a posting from this company ensure that you make people aware of alternatives.

Same way you would fight any bully ... gang up on him

Good Day

+1

HOORAY

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:02 pm

The best way to prevent being "targeted" is to not have illegal software on your computer in the first place.

It's really that simple.

Hillary Clinton · Post by **Hillary Clinton** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:45 pm

jamester wrote:The best way to prevent being "targeted" is to not have illegal software on your computer in the first place.

It's really that simple.

Yes, pretty simple till someone you pissed off calls the software police on you

Of course that problem is our society is that nothing is a big deal until it is happening to you. You'd have a whole different attitude then! Once you figure out that financially you haven't a chance of protecting yourself.

Ah, just let the corporations run the country ... oh wait ... they already do! Make sure to pick your favorite corporate candidate in the upcoming mock elections!

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:43 pm

Sorry Hillary, you're making two arguments at the same time, but they don't go together.

1) The "software police" can check my machine and find no illegal software, plus alll my boxes and receipts.

2) This didn't come about from an anonomous phone call, it came about because a guy from Waves found illegal software on a guy's machine. Might have been a "sting" operation, but that's life.

OP:

...he is being sued by Waves for $75k for using pirated copies of their SSL G-Master Buss Compressor plugin, and Diamond Bundle in his studio.

Dude was showing off illegal Diamond Bundle???

The second studio is the really nice facility which is all Intel Power Mac running Logic Pro. This studio has no Waves software on it. This is the studio that people come and pay to use mostly.

This adds up to jack shit in a court of law. It adds up to a conviction, actually.

Tell your friends to be cautious, and to use some discretion.

Or tell your friends not to run a studio with cracked illegal software, and if you do and get busted don't bitch about it. It's called breaking the law.

Hillary Clinton · Post by **Hillary Clinton** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:24 am

I think you miss the point. They "think" he pirated software and you and I know no more than that. He attempted to explain his story but they are already convinced from what they saw at his studio.

Not exactly condeming and not exactly an example of due process. It is a good example of conviction by suspicion and Waves has the ability to crucify him financially and face no repurcussion if they are wrong.

If a corporation goes after someone for a settlement, they should be liable for the equivalent percentage of their networth. Might make them think

jamester wrote:Sorry Hillary, you're making two arguments at the same time, but they don't go together.

1) The "software police" can check my machine and find no illegal software, plus alll my boxes and receipts.

2) This didn't come about from an anonomous phone call, it came about because a guy from Waves found illegal software on a guy's machine. Might have been a "sting" operation, but that's life.

OP:
...he is being sued by Waves for $75k for using pirated copies of their SSL G-Master Buss Compressor plugin, and Diamond Bundle in his studio.
Dude was showing off illegal Diamond Bundle???

The second studio is the really nice facility which is all Intel Power Mac running Logic Pro. This studio has no Waves software on it. This is the studio that people come and pay to use mostly.
This adds up to jack shit in a court of law. It adds up to a conviction, actually.

Tell your friends to be cautious, and to use some discretion.
Or tell your friends not to run a studio with cracked illegal software, and if you do and get busted don't bitch about it. It's called breaking the law.

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:42 am

I think you miss the point. They "think" he pirated software and you and I know no more than that. He attempted to explain his story but they are already convinced from what they saw at his studio.

Honestly, the more I think about it the more I think there's more to the story than is being told (shocking!).

This is simply a he said/she said type thing as it's being presented here; if Waves is taking him to court, they must have hard evidence against him. Otherwise they don't have an actual case.

Dude fucked up is what it sounds like. Hate to be cliche, but the ol' playing with fire thing - sometimes you do get burned. If Waves goes to court with circumstantial evidence like "I saw the plugs, I swear it!" the case will be thrown out.

gomi · Post by **gomi** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:04 am

jamester wrote:
I think you miss the point. They "think" he pirated software and you and I know no more than that. He attempted to explain his story but they are already convinced from what they saw at his studio.

Honestly, the more I think about it the more I think there's more to the story than is being told (shocking!).

This is simply a he said/she said type thing as it's being presented here; if Waves is taking him to court, they must have hard evidence against him. Otherwise they don't have an actual case.

Dude fucked up is what it sounds like. Hate to be cliche, but the ol' playing with fire thing - sometimes you do get burned. If Waves goes to court with circumstantial evidence like "I saw the plugs, I swear it!" the case will be thrown out.

if he is a registered waves user his account will be on record.
waves uses ilok and ilok only now, which means all waves needs to
do is traces the ilok account.

most new waves plugs require you to use an ilok even for the
demo now.

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:10 am

He is not a registered user, that's already been established.

The question is one of proof. Waves must have proof that will hold up in a court of law that he 1) Has cracked Waves plugs on his computer AND 2) That he has been using them to make money (since they are suing for his using them in a commercial studio). If they can't prove both of those things, they don't have a case.

My suspicion is that he did a session with this guy and took money for it, and somehow the Waves guy has it documented that those plugs were used in the session.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:30 am

jamester wrote:He is not a registered user, that's already been established.

The question is one of proof. Waves must have proof that will hold up in a court of law that he 1) Has cracked Waves plugs on his computer AND 2) That he has been using them to make money (since they are suing for his using them in a commercial studio). If they can't prove both of those things, they don't have a case.

My suspicion is that he did a session with this guy and took money for it, and somehow the Waves guy has it documented that those plugs were used in the session.

their plugins probably leave a sonic watermark which can be tracked back by analyzing music from there

now that would be fucking evil

KU · Post by KU » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:56 am

jamester wrote:
I think you miss the point. They "think" he pirated software and you and I know no more than that. He attempted to explain his story but they are already convinced from what they saw at his studio.

Honestly, the more I think about it the more I think there's more to the story than is being told (shocking!).

This is simply a he said/she said type thing as it's being presented here; if Waves is taking him to court, they must have hard evidence against him. Otherwise they don't have an actual case.

Dude fucked up is what it sounds like. Hate to be cliche, but the ol' playing with fire thing - sometimes you do get burned. If Waves goes to court with circumstantial evidence like "I saw the plugs, I swear it!" the case will be thrown out.

We have connected with multiple other people who are experiencing the same treatment from Waves. It seems like every other day we find another person getting shafted. Luckily he has tons of session files dating well over a year which show that absolutely no Waves plugins have ever been in his Mac/commercial studio.

Hillary Clinton wrote:This form of privileged vigilantism is not unique to Waves or the RIAA but is exercised all too often in the corporate world and severely circumvents the rights of individuals BY INTENT. The purpose is to instill fear to attempt to increase profits.

This should all sound really familiar as it is the same ideology (minus the violence) by extremist regimes of present and past. Turn your enemies into the SS and let them take care of them ... yikes!

How to really fight these companies?...

Same way you would fight any bully ... gang up on him

Good Day

I don't care if you think he was playing with fire. If we are complacent - or worse yet offer our blessing to letting corporations with large amounts of capitol and teams of lawyers persecute and rape individual artists... then we will get what we ask for... a nightmare.

don't buy their products
don't support them
talk to people about how this is not ok

I promise you'll feel better

Hillary Clinton · Post by **Hillary Clinton** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:49 am

Amen brotha!

Waves doesn't need to win a single court battle to trash someone, that is pretty common knowledge. They don't have to be right, they don't even have to have any evidence at all. They just wish to instill fear and need a few subjects for that purpose. Well that's my paranoid conspiracy opinion that may or may not be more true than we would like to believe!

As has been stated, don't buy from Waves, make sure to promote the alternatives if you really want to do something about it.

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:36 am

I maintain, the bottom line is whether they have hard evidence to prove he's been using - and making money from - the use of illegal software in his studio. If Waves doesn't have that proof, they will lose the suit plain and simple.

If your friend's story is true, then he has nothing to worry about. He will win the case, and may even be able to countersue for court costs and legal fees if it is determined that Waves brought a frivolous lawsuit.

Hillary Clinton · Post by **Hillary Clinton** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:45 am

jamester wrote:I maintain, the bottom line is whether they have hard evidence to prove he's been using - and making money from - the use of illegal software in his studio. If Waves doesn't have that proof, they will lose the suit plain and simple.

If your friend's story is true, then he has nothing to worry about. He will win the case, and may even be able to countersue for court costs and legal fees if it is determined that Waves brought a frivolous lawsuit.

jamester,

I believe you are missing the point. You do not have to even step into a court room to destroy someone. Just make them defend themselves till they are out of money. Then you win!

No justice in that.

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:00 am

But isn't the point that Waves has brought a lawsuit against the guy?

How exactly are they making him "defend himself till he's out of money", without taking him to court? How are they "destroying" him outside of court, I honestly don't understand.

Original Post:

They told him that there was nothing more to say and they would see him in court.

What am I missing?

KU · Post by KU » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:01 pm

jamester wrote:But isn't the point that Waves has brought a lawsuit against the guy?

How exactly are they making him "defend himself till he's out of money", without taking him to court? How are they "destroying" him outside of court, I honestly don't understand.

Original Post:
They told him that there was nothing more to say and they would see him in court.
What am I missing?

When you have to track down and retain a lawyer for $500-$3000 - you are defending yourself and draining your money, time, and resources. So much effort has to be made to prepare and defend yourself even though %90 of this stuff never sees a court room

when you are an individual with a day job and a family, this is usually enough to drive you to depression and 'destroy' what gains he had made in his business and art. Luckily this isn't the case with my friend and he is doing quite well.