Live PA Article by Mr.Henke Himself

[dj superflat]

great article, these are fascinating issues. i think people will get over some of this. think how little was thought of live rap in the early days, how far that's come.

that said, i don't think people will ever relate to remixing on the fly the way they do to traditional performance. not that they won't love djs, live performances where songs tweaked, parts and voices shuffled about, etc. but still won't feel it's akin to watching a band (which is somewhat weird, because a lot of what most bands play live is as, if not more, formulaic as dance music, the bass and drums playing roughly the same boring pattern for ages, then switching to another boring pattern for the chorus, etc.).

some of this is just plain bias. e.g., playing drums on a keybd looks way less cool than hitting one of those pads with sticks, but it's pretty much the same thing if you're just throwing together midi loops live.

[rbro]

I think to some degree, performing on an electronic instrument of any kind, whether a synth or a laptop etc. will provide less of an "emotional connection" with a live audience than a "traditional" instrument. There just seems to be a more authentic emotion associated with someone bending a guitar string to hit that high note for instance than watching someone hit the pitch bend on their synth, no matter what kind of facial expressions they're making. Or am I just biased because I'm a guitar player?

[pixelbox]

I think to some degree, performing on an electronic instrument of any kind, whether a synth or a laptop etc. will provide less of an "emotional connection" with a live audience than a "traditional" instrument. There just seems to be a more authentic emotion associated with someone bending a guitar string to hit that high note for instance than watching someone hit the pitch bend on their synth, no matter what kind of facial expressions they're making. Or am I just biased because I'm a guitar player?

agreed...although I'm a guitar player, too.

[exaltron]

This is an issue that's been discussed ad nauseum in the Warper community- if you watch a Moldover performance (lots on youtube), you can tell how much thought this guy has put into overcoming the what-is-he-checking-his-email? stigma. At one point, he would hook up all his controllers and had his rig set up so he could put his laptop off to the side and never even touch it during the performance. There is no question when this dude is playing that what you see his hands doing is translated into some serious munging of the audio material.

I think a lot of this depends on the audience. Club peoples don't seem to care that much as they are accustomed to watching a DJ put records on turntables, where as aficionados of the rock are looking for emaciated pale dudes jumping around on stage. Of course most crowds are mixed- blame the stupid multiculturalist movement.

I may be biased as an instrumentalist/singer, but I don't see any substitute for live playing, spontaneous sounds and improv in a performance. If you're just showing up and playing files, that to me is more of a listening party, which is fun, but shouldn't be billed/promoted as a performance. The point of seeing a live show is that you are seeing something that is unique to that venue and moment.

[Angstrom]

There just seems to be a more authentic emotion associated with someone bending a guitar string to hit that high note for instance than watching someone hit the pitch bend on their synth, no matter what kind of facial expressions they're making. Or am I just biased because I'm a guitar player?

yes, you are biased.

Ever been at a gig and a non-musician 'friend' (who may or may not be a woman) can't tell who is playing the bass or the lead guitar, or what the difference might be. Right after an 'expressive solo'.

Now musicians write this off, but to a non-musician who may or may not be a woman the difference is less than obvious. The drums are obvious, the sexy singer is obvious - but who knows how the rest of the noise is produced.

You must have had this conversation, surely?

What this reveals is - if the guitar performer is confident in his pouty expressions, it comes across confidently. Same as a confident stand-up.
Same as a confident electronic musician. The crowd feels safe.
If a stand-ip or musician is energetic the crowd feels confident in their hands and becomes energetic.

But if an electronic musician is nervous, un-confident or questioning his legitimacy ... they audience will pick it up. They will slip through his fingers and they will drift out of his control.

So no, there is no more legitimacy for the lay-audience member in a 'natural' performer, because they don't know what he is doing either. Apart from the tedious nerds, they will want to know what amp setting you use.

[rbro]

There just seems to be a more authentic emotion associated with someone bending a guitar string to hit that high note for instance than watching someone hit the pitch bend on their synth, no matter what kind of facial expressions they're making. Or am I just biased because I'm a guitar player?

yes, you are biased.

Ever been at a gig and a non-musician 'friend' (who may or may not be a woman) can't tell who is playing the bass or the lead guitar, or what the difference might be. Right after an 'expressive solo'.

Now musicians write this off, but to a non-musician who may or may not be a woman the difference is less than obvious. The drums are obvious, the sexy singer is obvious - but who knows how the rest of the noise is produced.

You must have had this conversation, surely?

What this reveals is - if the guitar performer is confident in his pouty expressions, it comes across confidently. Same as a confident stand-up.
Same as a confident electronic musician. The crowd feels safe.
If a stand-ip or musician is energetic the crowd feels confident in their hands and becomes energetic.

But if an electronic musician is nervous, un-confident or questioning his legitimacy ... they audience will pick it up. They will slip through his fingers and they will drift out of his control.

So no, there is no more legitimacy for the lay-audience member in a 'natural' performer, because they don't know what he is doing either. Apart from the tedious nerds, they will want to know what amp setting you use.

I'm not sure what being a woman or a man would have to do with this conversation, but yes I do agree that being confident onstage plays an important role in controlling an audience. As far as a "lay-audience member" not knowing the difference between a "legitimate" performance or not, I suppose that's true as well, hence Milli Vanilli and Britney Spears. The same could probably be said for all performance and in sports as well. You can always find the lowest common denominator fans/audience members who are happily ignorant. Not that their enjoyment of a concert or live performance is any less satisfying for them, but I think Robert's article and this conversation in general is aiming for higher than the lowest common denominator types.

[dj superflat]

even if someone can't tell the difference between bass and guitar (and really, that's like claiming there's some meaningful difference between french and spanish for a chinese-speaker, and there really isn't), they know what "normal" instruments are, know that hitting strings causes different sounds. with laptop music, who knows what they're doing or whether they're really doing it.

here's the rub: there's generally little reason to fake a live performance as a band, unless you in a situation like a TV show where it's almost expected.

by contrast, there's all sorts of reasons to "fake" a live electronic performance, because no one can really call you on it, you can't recrease everything live, or even a seriously pared down performance, and working the filter knob may be enough fun for you and the audience.

and where's the mystery in watching someone "rock" a laptop? you may never have held a violin, but everyone uses computers these days, nothing inherently interesting about it.

this all just highlights how important the theatre aspects of music performance are. please don't misunderstand -- most of a U2 performance is just about as canned, drummer playing with a click, triggered samples, some keybds sequences, the same canned patter by bono everynite at the same time, etc.

[rbro]

I think the fact that electronic musicians have to go through some kind of extra effort to make it look like they're not just checking their email says alot about the disadvantages of performing electronic music live. After all isn't that the same kind of reasoning behind the invention of something like the Keytar? Ultimately of course the value in any performance lies in the eyes/ears of the beholder, but as Robert mentions in his article, ultimately the satisfaction of the performer comes into play as well.

[Angstrom]

point 1: men and women, in the audience.
although it seems 'sexist', there is a broad generalisation to be made about the way (in general) men and women relate to music, especially the technology and techniques of music. It's a cliche for a reason, take a look at this board's demographic if you want any indication on this.
I find it funny that men find it demeaning to imply that women enjoy music (in general) in a different way to men, because this implies that the (general) masculine way to enjoy music is better. When in fact it is different.
By the masculine way I mean the nerdy intricate stamp-collecting nature, obsessed with 'gadgets'. Anyway - really it is beside my main points which are ...

Point 2: Lowest common denominator in the audience
Although it's tempting to believe that 'stupid' people are the ones who don't know the difference between one instrument and another - in fact it is "people that don't care too much about the technology". Which is a different matter.
For example : I don't care that much about the technology of my local electricity provider - only caring that it works, that it does what it should.

Point 3: the highest common denominator, or 'who cares?'
What we are talking about here is 'us'. We are the people who care the most about the issue of conveying a good performance. When you see all those happy smiling punters who are enjoying themselves, are they are the 'lowest common denominator' ?
I think not, In fact they are the center of the audience bell curve - which is very different.
They form the bulk of people who might be prepared to go to a gig and they actually enjoy the gig due to not being overly pre-occupied with the semantics and ontology of the 'performance'.

thinking about it? you are doing it wrong
There's a 17th C French Philospher called Montaigne who writes eloquently about the benefits of non-rational thought. He draws parallels to sex, and how an educated man can tie himself up in knots thinking about his duties and morals while the 'un-educated' man can simply enjoy the moment of animalistic passion.

I would draw the parallel here. Where the lumpen masses are getting it right is they are not that bothered about the polotics of performance - they are simply animalistically enjoying it. Sure - you can spook them by playing the sound of "an orchestra from a small box" which makes no animal sense. but play it simple and get into the 'moment' and it doesn't matter if you are playing a violin or a hewlet packard, they will enjoy the moment.

[rbro]

point 1: men and women, in the audience.
although it seems 'sexist', there is a broad generalisation to be made about the way (in general) men and women relate to music, especially the technology and techniques of music. It's a cliche for a reason, take a look at this board's demographic if you want any indication on this.
I find it funny that men find it demeaning to imply that women enjoy music (in general) in a different way to men, because this implies that the (general) masculine way to enjoy music is better. When in fact it is different.
By the masculine way I mean the nerdy intricate stamp-collecting nature, obsessed with 'gadgets'. Anyway - really it is beside my main points which are ...

Point 2: Lowest common denominator in the audience
Although it's tempting to believe that 'stupid' people are the ones who don't know the difference between one instrument and another - in fact it is "people that don't care too much about the technology". Which is a different matter.
For example : I don't care that much about the technology of my local electricity provider - only caring that it works, that it does what it should.

Point 3: the highest common denominator, or 'who cares?'
What we are talking about here is 'us'. We are the people who care the most about the issue of conveying a good performance. When you see all those happy smiling punters who are enjoying themselves, are they are the 'lowest common denominator' ?
I think not, In fact they are the center of the audience bell curve - which is very different.
They form the bulk of people who might be prepared to go to a gig and they actually enjoy the gig due to not being overly pre-occupied with the semantics and ontology of the 'performance'.

thinking about it? you are doing it wrong
There's a 17th C French Philospher called Montaigne who writes eloquently about the benefits of non-rational thought. He draws parallels to sex, and how an educated man can tie himself up in knots thinking about his duties and morals while the 'un-educated' man can simply enjoy the moment of animalistic passion.

I would draw the parallel here. Where the lumpen masses are getting it right is they are not that bothered about the polotics of performance - they are simply animalistically enjoying it. Sure - you can spook them by playing the sound of "an orchestra from a small box" which makes no animal sense. but play it simple and get into the 'moment' and it doesn't matter if you are playing a violin or a hewlet packard, they will enjoy the moment.

I agree with just about everything in this sexist post. I 'll respond in more detail later...gotta run for now.....

[nate_D]

a proper way to bring electronic music to life with bjork.matmos.a full orchestra @ the royal opera house
possibly maybe - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-SDIZhnqTo
hyperballade - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhG4w6zjCec

[pepezabala]

who helps me to program a plug in that converts incoming mails into midi-sequences?

the performance will be called "function follows form".

[smartass303]

For example : I don't care that much about the technology of my local electricity provider - only caring that it works, that it does what it should.

Beside the sexist undertones, do you live next to a nuclear power plant or a coal plant? Thats not too funny tough...

Quoting Montaigne is smart anyways @ this subject.

303

[Tone Deft]

a proper way to bring electronic music to life with bjork.matmos.a full orchestra @ the royal opera house
possibly maybe - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-SDIZhnqTo
hyperballade - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhG4w6zjCec

nice linx

[forge]

who helps me to program a plug in that converts incoming mails into midi-sequences?

the performance will be called "function follows form".