Ableton Forum

Moody wrote:If I did not have to by the GF a Bday present next week I would own it right now. Love it or leave it.

oh you shouldn't hav.... wait, what the hell is "Sampler"?

Dude, if it's too expensive, then use something else. Nobody is forcing you to use Sampler or Live at all.
That's one of the nice things about a free market - You're not required to buy anything you don't want.

the_planet wrote:Dude, if it's too expensive, then use something else. Nobody is forcing you to use Sampler or Live at all.
That's one of the nice things about a free market - You're not required to buy anything you don't want.

Exactly. That's why I'm using a different product.

I would really like to support the Abs over the other company, but anything over $50 is too much.

Say La Veeeeeee

kabuki wrote:

the_planet wrote:Dude, if it's too expensive, then use something else. Nobody is forcing you to use Sampler or Live at all.
That's one of the nice things about a free market - You're not required to buy anything you don't want.

Exactly. That's why I'm using a different product...

Not exactly! These are two different points:

To buy something else if something is overpriced is a given, and not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is disapointment over this new sale price, and I personally agree. A bit more off and I would've bought it, even though I'm rarely even using Live these days. But fifty off when I already feel it's overpriced is not enough. Just our opinions, but that's the point...

jamester wrote:.......Just our opinions, but that's the point...

Heads up, here comes johnisfaster with his "bag of chips theory".......

50$? Thats like what... 20€?

Maybe they'll make a version that contains lead and can be sold at walmart.

hoffman2k wrote:50$? Thats like what... 20€?

Maybe they'll make a version that contains lead and can be sold at walmart.

You don't have to understand that the competition is making Ableton look greedy.

You not understanding that does not change the fact that Logic is now and undeniably better deal for anybody not doing DJ work or performing live with loops.

So much so that a simple sampler like Sampler is looking VERY overpriced and out of touch with the market place..... just like this "promotion". It's bad timing, pay almost 1/3 the cost Logic for an add on sampler that can only be used in Live?

What has changed recently is that it's now near impossible for me to recommend Live $499 over Logic $499, unless the person is interested in firing loops in a live environment. Beyond that Live is about as complex as Traction, which costs $249 with at least three 'pro' level instruments.

Apple have raised the stakes, period.
Sorry hoffman, you're not really making any sense here. I love Live almost as much as you do, but I can see very clearly that Ableton are going to have to offer something more to rope people in now, and hopefully that means bundling plug ins, and new features, rather than dropping the price. I seriously don't think they have the "bundle" to make dropping the price lucrative, so becoming an all in one solution to a degree makes sense.
Remember, I don't particularly like embedded plug ins, I'm just talking from a marketing perspective.

Machinesworking wrote:for an add on sampler that can only be used in Live?

sorry mate..
but unless Logic 8 changed, Logic instruments cannot be used outside Logic either can it?

Machinesworking wrote:You don't have to understand that the competition is making Ableton look greedy.

come on now, paleeeease..

greedy?
did you call Apple greedy prior to last week ?
did you call Emagic greedy years ago?

when exactly did you buy Logic?
prior to last week?
or did you just hop on to the bargain train?

get your perspectives right mate..
Apple is a big greedy company who's only aim is to make even more money by lowering Logics price..

Ableton is a small player that obviously cannot compete with this agressive pricetagging..

*mega sigh*

Yeah. And we all know Abletons marketing strategy makes sense
They sold Live 6 with a box looking like a garageband expansion, you think they'll effectively destroy their only source of income just because Apple says so?
Where are those pc users who swear on their mothers life that they'll never use a mac? Are they extinct?
If you think 1 price cut is going to change the world, you're living in faerie-land.

Nobody can defend Ableton's decisions. I cant, you cant and you dont even see them trying.
And everybody is missing the biggest point here it seems... They did the same with operator last year, just before they released the Live 6 public beta. Which means this is just erm.. storm before the storm?

Its simply a case of Cartman saying "Screw you guys, I'm going home" and nobody giving a damn about it.
People can make all the threats they want, if they think that it'll make Ableton's mind change... They're way more optimistic then I am.

Besides.. I bought Operator/Sampler. Now they're supposed to give it away?
Yeah right. I don't think they have the balls to even dare try piss off their customers like that.

Most of you are talking about "new customers" and how attractive Logic will look to them. I'm an old customer who invested time and money to see Live grow up, getting rid of the entry level crowd could finally make Ableton "beef up" Live a bit. Make it more modular/complex/flexible. Instead of an app thats almost designed to make a musician out of an aspiring dj.

You have the crowd that wants a DAW, a Dj app, a performance app or a musical toy. (probably more categories, but you get the point)
They cant satisfy everybody, if they could.. We wouldn't be having this conversation.

Ableton is not Apple and Logic will never be Live. What more do you want?
Carbon copy of logic with session view for 350$?

I dunno how your culture works, but where i come from... Pricing something extremely low either means you're doing it with a loss... Or you couldn't sell it in the first place.

@Poster

I don't think he is calling them greedy, I think he is talking about the potential perception from the market place.

Also, it seems the Logic/Ableton comparison wasn't so much about plugs being proprietary or not, but more about the amount of content a buyer gets for the money.

I love Ableton Live as well, but I also think MW makes vaild points.

hoffman2k wrote:Besides.. I bought Operator/Sampler. Now they're supposed to give it away?
Yeah right. I don't think they have the balls to even dare try piss off their customers like that.

That is probably the biggest obstacle to Ableton bundling Sampler and Operator with an upgrade. I own operator, so a bundle would basically mean that I threw my money away on it.

smutek wrote:@Poster
I don't think he is calling them greedy, I think he is talking about the potential perception from the market place.

well.. in the context of his whole post I interpreted it like that..
could be wrong..

its just that I'm getting fed up with the amount of unrealistic bla bla that is dominating the forum right now..

smutek wrote: I love Ableton Live as well, but I also think MW makes vaild points.

He does. And if Ableton was a huge company who just sold a billion trinkets, it would actually make sense.

You think they can actually afford to compete with that pricing? I don't know their financial records. But I do know they got 80+ people to feed.

Poster wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:for an add on sampler that can only be used in Live?

sorry mate..
but unless Logic 8 changed, Logic instruments cannot be used outside Logic either can it?

Right, 40 are included in Logic, there is no extra charge anymore. Ten are 'pro' quality. Serious, really good stuff. It also has a convolution reverb, and mastering plug ins. I don't expect the next version of Live to have 10 pro instrument plug ins, but charging for their two pro plug ins is looking bad at the price point they are.

Hopefully they do something with Max/MSP where they bundle those two applications together integrated to compete by going in a totally different direction, but right now I think they're floundering.

Logic took a good chunk of the market when they initially bundled the pro plug ins at $999, now I see it's obvious to me at least that Ableton need to do something besides drop their mediocre embedded sampler down $50 in price. Hopefully they are doing it to get cash to code new stuff to compete.......

A MIDI Environment like Logic's, but plus audio, with Cycling 74's Max/MSP technology built in, and a user library like Reactor. THAT would crush the competition in a way that would be truly unique.