Ableton Forum

As for boycotting Switzerland, I don't think it's possible. Your money will end up there eventually...

noisetonepause wrote:

Landser wrote:A reason to buy more Toblerone than ever.
One of the last countries in Europe, where people's voice still is slightly stronger than the dictatorship of media, political correctness and plutocrats and the only country left, worth being called a partially democracy.
Congratulations to the swiss people, for not following the media-tyranny, but keeping to support political forces caring about their community and social cohesion.
The globalists' plan to destroy the european nations as a prerequisite to their world-government as dictatorship of money must be stopped.
Mr. Blocher is one man fighting those plans.
I am for a pluralistic world with many unique races, ethnics, nations, cultures, religions and against everywhere the same multicultural and egoistic hell of Globalism.
If the Europen people will not develop a will to defend their communities and countries against the genocide by mass-immigration in the face of the demographic development very soon, our whole race will be doomed.

Ah yes, the zionist globalist banker lizardmen are importing the muslims and negros to effect MIND CONTROL!

Could you imagine that war's are lead, currencies are abolished, a constitution is made, gen-food is allwoed, shit and blood declared as highest art and subventioned by huge taxes and the cities flooded with foreigners from all over the world against the will of the people in a democracy?
400 TV-stations in Europe and you think such things like mentioned above would be possible? You must have paranoia! We have a democracy...

smartass303 wrote:Hmmm,
where are our common swiss Posters?
minimal, where are you?

here I am, I was reading the thread, wow 3 pages about this little country who looks like a chocolate factory.
First of all I noticed that no one said an important thing: parallel to the exspansion of SVP there is an important exapansion of the green party as we call it here, the ecologists.
One could put a bit of faiths in this, is he/she believes in politcs. It is not my case anyway.

Lots of people lost their faith in our left parties, there are too many reason to anylize them properly here, plus I am not an expert in politics.
This the first sucess factor for SVP.
What berlusconi does in big style with TV monopoly in italy is replicated here with printed press, there are so many shitty newspaper here playing the cheap populist-racist game. All owned by the same 2 people anyway.
Fact is the left wing has graudally lost contact with the people, and this gave SVP the ideal background to start with a very smart populist campaing.
SVP is also more close the the more conservative pupulation sheets, like land-workers and such, (refer to craw post for some nice analysis of that point) and they are quite a lot in the switzerland. They are not always racists but a bit conservative for sure, thus SVP ideas are more appealing to them than to a someone like me who lives in a city district where 150 nationalites are represented and feels that this could turn in a very impportant cultural enrichment.
There are really a lot of foreigners here, I was born here wiht an italian passport and turned into a swiss at the age of 8 because this has been the will of my father.
I belong thus to a generation of "secondos" (second, means in this case here childern born in the switerland from foreigners parents like the second generation of strangers, pretty cinycal...) thus I may feel some racists campaing more closers that other "swiss born" and maybe even a bit directed to people like me; i somehow could even belong the the "black sheep" cathergory, may it be because I not a real swiss, may it be because at the age of 16 I was arrested by the police because together with some friends (5 only) we were holding a non authorized demonstration to support a campaing for the swiss to have an anti-racism law (the law eventually passed, yeah, now in the switzerland if you insult someone because of it's skin colour, ethinic or so you can be punished with money of jail)...
well, we should be more close to left parties, but I feel they lost us this time, the big mistake of left parties has been not being able to organize a proper campaing with own themes, instead of only relplying to SVP provocations in a cery chilidsh way.
I wouldn't be suprised to hear from some "secondos" voting SVP, honestly.
Switerland has always had a perves relation to foreigners anyway, both the goverment and the "real" people.
Swiss is eager to help quite everyone in the word, both supporting developing projects but also military stuff (like selling militar aeroplanes to southafrica during apartheid, helping iraq to build a mega weapon to shut down iran in the 80s, oh my god I could go on for days), they love to help poor people but please poor people, receive our money but please please do not come here, we have such clean streets if would be a pity if you isntall your kebab stand... you see the picture?

I'll stop now, if not the post will turn into pages, and as I final observation I'll quote nothernlight. this is only the half of the swiss voting. Lots of us, including me, stayed at home and watched the game with distance.
It would mabye be time for these clowns to sit down a bit and try to understand why they lost so many of us along the road.

And about chocolate boicott.... the best chocolate never was made in switzeralnd anyawy, only this cheap crap for tourists.. better eat some mmmhh.... german or belgian chocolate, and this indipendently from our government...

noisetonepause wrote:

Landser wrote:Immigration is land-robbery, and multiculturalism is genocide.

If you knew the first thing about history, you would know that a) things will not remain the same foreve and b) that's fine.

he also might have seen that a lof of short minded people like him ruled along the way... not that I agree with him, but the little I know about story tells me there are a lof of close minded people like him ruling the world.
a couple of them are right sitting in our goverment.

craw wrote: @ bounce: by the way I am also from a Gaelic community ... I grew up in Glasgow, and my family originate from Uist ... so don't give me the sob story about Gealic ... it has been dying in Scotland for years ... largely in part because the english outlawed it for many years ... but you know what, Scotland ceased to exist as a country 400 years ago in the forming of the union (go check in a world book of flags or something ... you certainly won't find scotland listed as an independant country) ... our language and traditions were outlawed and suppressed, we experienced several waves of immigration (most noteably from Ireland), but in the end you will be hard pushed to find a group of people with a stronger sense of identity and pride in their culture as the scottish.

My point is that you can take the border away, destroy the government, the language, the traditions, and flood a country with immigrants, etc, but you can't so simply stop a people from being a people. and scotland is an excellent example of that. So is the basque country and so is kurdistan ... oppressors around the world would love for cultures to be simply wiped out so easily, but it just doesn't happen.

This is why I called Landser an asshole ... because I think there is no such thing as 'genocide' by migration ...

*shudder*
speak for yourself. btw have you been taking doublethink lessons off tone deft?

As for the basque country, they've got as much a hard-on for their language as we do - they are certainly no where near as defeatist as you come across.

"you can rob me of my identity and mould me into yours - but I am still a person" ...lol

noisetonepause,

If you knew the first thing about history, you would know that a) things will not remain the same foreve and b) that's fine.

And i thought i would be important, in what direction things change - to the better or the worse. I didn't know, that a european wide Lebanon or Yugoslavia is really a fine thing. But you learn something new every day...

Landser wrote: You think?
If you can think, then inform yourself about the definition of what genocide means and come back, when you have understood, that genetical destruction can be achieved in many ways.

Landser I am not going to get sucked into a debate with you about Lewontin. But waht you say above lies at the crux of it, and is were you and I fandamentally disagree.

Of course you can 'outbreed' a population on a biological level ... but culture isn't biological, which is why people draw a distinction between cultural and biological evolution .... to go back to the scottish example, all of the irish, polish, italien, spanish and indian genes, that are floating about in the scottish genome, do nothing to dilute scottish culture.

Culture resides not in the genes my friend. You coulkd stop white people from breeding in scotland and allow only black people to breed, and for sure the white people would die out. But so long as the children were singing scottish songs, reading scottish stories, learning scottish history, etc, then the scottish culture would survive ... culture is not genetic.

Same goes for any culture ... my 2 'auslander' sons have no swiss genes, but they are definitely swiss, cause they speak the dialect, learn the history, sing the songs, play the games, etc ... although genetically, they are from scotland, culturally, they are swiss ... christ they might even grow up to vote SVP!! Their presence in Switzerland in no way dilutes the swiss culture.

Your idea of genetic purity just gives me the creeps

I'm done with this debate ...

long live the toblerone!!

Landser wrote:noisetonepause,

If you knew the first thing about history, you would know that a) things will not remain the same foreve and b) that's fine.

And i thought i would be important, in what direction things change - to the better or the worse. I didn't know, that a european wide Lebanon or Yugoslavia is really a fine thing. But you learn something new every day...

Neither Lebanon nor Yugoslavia happened because of immigration. Is that what you're implying?

Really, if we will see a repetition of history in Europe, muslim migrants are much closer to experiencing something like the Japanese were the object of in America during the Second World War than the old worlders like me are to seeing a civil war.

Dont feed the troll my Danish friend!
Hes an xenophobe arsehole, look at his nick, he IS Landser!
right wing blablabla...

noisetonepause wrote:

Landser wrote:noisetonepause,

If you knew the first thing about history, you would know that a) things will not remain the same foreve and b) that's fine.

And i thought i would be important, in what direction things change - to the better or the worse. I didn't know, that a european wide Lebanon or Yugoslavia is really a fine thing. But you learn something new every day...

Neither Lebanon nor Yugoslavia happened because of immigration. Is that what you're implying?

Ofcourse they are a product of unnatural borders and forced mixture of different races, ethnics, cultures and religions. You can study teh reality of multiculturalism at it's best there and how it always ends - in reality, not in the mass-media.
And in Kosvaria you can study how a genocide is initiated by immigration and fullfilled with high birth rates of the immigrants. The serbs have dropped within a few decades in the 1970s from the majority to 10% because of the birth rates of the Albanians. A genocide.

Fact is, in many European cities moslems already have the majority among births. If they will be not removed where they came from, this is the population of the future. A fact. Europeans, if they can, are fleeing these multicultural paradises, Paris is burning, and some people here, keep repeating the absurd lies about the "greatness of multiculturalism".

If an immigrant is lobbying for more immigration, i can understand that. But that white Europeans have no proud about their heritage, not about about their people, not about what this european blood achieved in science and culture over 4000 years, but prefer to make place to others, i cannot understand.
You have one big mistake in your thinking: you think, if you welcome the foreigners, they will do the same. No, they are not as degenerated, they want to live and they want children and they want to live on in their children and childchildren. They are proud of their heritage, their culture and their blood.
So go away and make place to those, who are worth living, but do not judge us, that we will not do the same!

Paris burning has nothign to do with multiculturalism - it's got everything to do with failed social policies, a failed economy and a racist labour market - but nothing to do with the cultures of the immigrants. Disenfranchised young people easily turn into troublemakers, no matter where they come from or how they were raised.

And it would be obvious to anyone with a set of eyes and a collaborating braint that blood has never achieved anything, not in Europe, not anywhere else. People in environments conductive to achievement have, but blood on its own... no. The idea is prepostorous. When did blood write poems or build monuments?

Also, I'm curious how you even define 'European blood'? What is this Europe everyone's speaking of? I cannot see geographical Europe as any sort of distinct cultural unit (it is at least three, or part of a larger one including the Americas). Maybe you can help me here?

noisetonepause wrote:Paris burning has nothign to do with multiculturalism - it's got everything to do with failed social policies, a failed economy and a racist labour market

Always the same excuses. Paris, like all other european cities, were wonderful, peaceful cities, where free french women and men could go everywhere at any time.

And what you don't understand, or are not willing to accept: Nature IS racist, because races and ethnics mean diversity, and that means higher probabilities to survive of the whole species. Nature creates races, ethnics and these groups try to preserve their seperation/identity naturally. Therefore the huge forces of mass-media, money and politics are necessary, to force the natural groups together, to make them mix up. And even under highest pressure, they deny to mix up, build ghettos, stay among themselfes.

If your imagination of reality were right, we would see a natural mixing and as further consequence, teher would be no resistance of all ethnics in all cultures all over the world in all times to become mixed up.
It's the most natural thing, that common heritage means high similarity, common culture and social behavoir is the fundamental of a peaceful living.

Multiculturalism is the permanent war within the countries and whenever the living standard falls, they explode in ethnical or racial conflicts.

When did blood write poems or build monuments?

Have you ever asked, why nobody today is speaking latin? Why did the Greek or Roman culture disappear? Why the Ägyptians?
If you take a look at the blood you will see, that with the blood the culture disappeared, too.
So to answer your question: ALWAYS.

Also, I'm curious how you even define 'European blood'? What is this Europe everyone's speaking of?

Are you srious? You can identify a rose but not a memeber of the european-race? Do you know, how a memeber of the negroid-race looks like?
If you would be really interested in, which i doubt anyway, since you will not accept there exist human races because that does not fit into your political visions, you could inform yourself by asking a human-geneticist, a criminologist or a medical-geneticist to tell you about the dogmatic "non-existant" races and about the reality of science.

Landser wrote: you can study how a genocide is initiated by immigration and fullfilled with high birth rates of the immigrants

Genocides are mostly initiated by people waving flags and being proud of their own race/nationality/culture.

Nationalism has killed more people than any migration.

Fact.

Landser wrote:So go away and make place to those, who are worth living, but do not judge us, that we will not do the same!

Excuse my socio-ethnological curiosity, could you say who is "us" in this context, if you don't mind. Rather astonishing your frank expression of unpopular views.

My personal observation in my field, that is music, do not confirm any of that gen, blood stuff. The students of African or Afroamerican parents, born ,grown up here are as German as it gets in all aspects- including absence of sense of rhythm .
Same thing about second generation of Indians, something that I am personally not too happy about, they are 100% Germans in they thinking, behavior, everything. I hear the same from my friends who teach dance, Indian or African. Other then obviously looking more"authentic" in the costumes the second generations do not have slightest advantage over the "genuine" German natives.
It is very different with those who come from abroad, grown in their own culture, you notice it from the very moment they sit with the instrument, handle it. I know many German musicians or dancers who are brilliant in those "ethnic" arts but no surprise, they love it,live it, breathe it,, it is the whole lifestyle, the social context, they took it as their own and then it becomes theirs too.
So as far as my experience in teaching, playing music goes, I have not ever noticed those "gen", blood advantages- cultural? Absolutely, always.

Oh gawd,
same old story:
Nazis (Landser) = Biologists
everyone else = not so narrowminded

Whats the prob?

DONT FEED THE TROLL!