Is the virus Ti really all that? (vs Z3ta, Sylenth, Zebra)

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:14 am

aqua_tek wrote:Only way i'd feel like i wasted my money with my TI Polar is if I didn't know how to work a synth and thus felt compelled to use presets. That's part of they joy of having a hardware synth... or any synth in general right?. Just getting into programming it. Otherwise it would be nothing more than an expensive ROMpler wouldn't it?

Another nice thing about hardware synths, they look nice in your room, and can make a great conversation piece, especially when it's dark and all the LED's are glowing nicely. Soft synths, not so much.

"ooh what's that?!"
"that's my virus synth. I use it to make hit records."
"that's awesome, like Deadmau5?"
"better than Deadmau5"
"make love to me"
^^ Sexy

"let me pull out my laptop and launch Live so I can show you my Sylenth".
"nah that's OK, but now that you pulled out your laptop, can I check my facebook real quick? Want to see what my ex boyfriend has been up to tonight"
^^ Not that sexy.
Two things...

In your first scenario, the person you're seducing with the virus IS Deadmau5, right?

In your second scenario, just pretend that your lappie "dropped that damn network connection again...bummer"

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:37 am

nebulae wrote:
aqua_tek wrote:Only way i'd feel like i wasted my money with my TI Polar is if I didn't know how to work a synth and thus felt compelled to use presets. That's part of they joy of having a hardware synth... or any synth in general right?. Just getting into programming it. Otherwise it would be nothing more than an expensive ROMpler wouldn't it?

Another nice thing about hardware synths, they look nice in your room, and can make a great conversation piece, especially when it's dark and all the LED's are glowing nicely. Soft synths, not so much.

"ooh what's that?!"
"that's my virus synth. I use it to make hit records."
"that's awesome, like Deadmau5?"
"better than Deadmau5"
"make love to me"
^^ Sexy

"let me pull out my laptop and launch Live so I can show you my Sylenth".
"nah that's OK, but now that you pulled out your laptop, can I check my facebook real quick? Want to see what my ex boyfriend has been up to tonight"
^^ Not that sexy.
Two things...

In your first scenario, the person you're seducing with the virus IS Deadmau5, right?

In your second scenario, just pretend that your lappie "dropped that damn network connection again...bummer"
Maybe it's Seattle, but no girl I've ever brought over gave a shit about my synths. It's more like,
"What's that thing with blinking lights?"
"That's a Memorymoog, classic synth"
"So that's what you do instead of washing your dishes or getting a real job huh?"

2nd scenario is even worse.

"So yeah I use soft synths to do much of the sounds in a song"
"My kid brother has Garageband, he made a really professional sounding song in it with these loop things. Have you tried that?"

soundpalace
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Post by soundpalace » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:04 am

Hey all, I have tried the soft synths mentioned here extensively and I own Zebra2. I recently bought the TI Desktop for $1800 AU (AU is worth less than US dollars) :D

I also use Thor in Reason which is an excellent synth and have extensively tested out NIs Massive.

- Raw oscillators: Sylenth1 or Thor are the best in this department, the Virus oscs (without analog boost) have barely any bass and the highs are all not sharp. The hypersaw is about the same if not better in Sylenth and Thor. The wavetables are about as good on Thor / Massive (actually they are better on Massive) and the graintables I can't compare since not many synths have them. Ultimately, the Virus oscs are nothing to go nuts over, but I think that they are partly responsible for the "virus sound" :)

- Filters: The Virus filters take the cake here (Thor is a close second). The analog mode in particular is fat as all hell and really screams with the resonance up, reminds me of an old Roland analog I owned. The Zebra2 / Massive / z3ta filters are entirely different to the Virus and ultimately worse for my taste. Sylenth's filter is nice but it's not quite as good, especially when you compare analog mode.

- Saturation: This is where the Virus beats all softsynths hands down for me. I have never heard such awesome sounding saturation which still sounds so musical as you drive it. The rate reducer and rectifier for instance are brilliant and really give a edgy yet musical tone to any sound. Thor and Sylenth are decent in this department even though Sylenth does not have polyphonic saturation. Thor's actually sounds great but gets very clicky as you up it so you have to up the attack to stop the popping :)

- FM / Ringmod / Hardsync: Once again, here is where the Virus shines. The FM algorithms provided are insane! I just love them. Most synths mentioned don't perform FM in the way the Virus does so it's hard to compare. Same with ringmod, it is extremely usable and gives so much power / bite to a sound. The hard sync is awesome too, but about as good as most softsynths mentioned here.

- Effects: Well, the phaser is something very special (Sylenth1 nailed this too) but the rest are all pretty normal. The reverb has a certain quality about it which works well on really small room sounds, yet it opens up nicely for big tails. Unfortunately there is no modulation on the verb so I still use ArtsAcoustic which sounds way better anyway.

- Misc: The Virus has a punch knob which although very simple, really really works. The sounds in Sylenth really lack that initial pointy attack, they sound much flatter when you compare to the Virus, same with Zebra2. Thor is the only soft synth that comes close to matching this punchiness for me.

Overall, I love the Virus, it certainly has a huge character when used in a mix. But, it is not the only synth you will ever need, Sylenth1, Zebra, z3ta or Thor compliment it extremely well. I still love Thor for really direct bassy sounds, Zebra for huge soundscapes and pads, Sylenth I never really was a fan of since it can only produce a smaller palette of sounds (no hard sync, no easy to use PWM, only standard waveforms, no FM, no ringmod) and z3ta for other stuff.

I would actually have bought z3ta had they allowed us to set a default quality setting, it's sooooo annoying having to change the quality everytime you start / load a patch.

I use Cubase 4 on WinXP at the moment and the Virus TI 2.7.5 has caused me 0 problems so far. You get 3 output channels. You can use one of them as a send (which I send to artsacoustic) and I usually use the 3rd channel sidechaining to the kick for pumping sidechain sounds.

I think that there really is no softsynth that sounds quite like a Virus, but the software equivalents are just as good, they just sound different. I'm still pretty happy with my purchase, it's a really well built unit :D

Cheers :)

Chang
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Post by Chang » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:32 am

nebulae wrote:
Chang wrote:Total waste of money imo the $1,600 virus. Sylenth 1 + outboard 100% real analog filter to run it through and you'll hear fatness all day long. And save $1,000 in process.
Agreed...I run Sylenth through a tube preamp back into my DAW, and it's just as good. I tested both out side by side, and to me, Sylenth is just as good

Could not agree more in so many ways and it doesn't even have to be Sylenth vsti. A subject totally misunderstood by many new comers this is to sound. Its on pre-amps and filters where the magic happens. I have ran crazy scenarios using Reaktor into outboard moog filter into M Resonator into pre where the sound I was getting was thicker than a Macbeth modular. Thats the secret. It is the vsti-itb running out of the box into filter & pre's back into the box that makes a thin vsti sound unbelieavable. Focus is not on viruses etc but on outboard gear to get sound. And in music the sound is the bottom line, not led light show. To me.

aqua_tek
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Post by aqua_tek » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:20 am

Chang wrote:the sound is the bottom line, not led light show.
BLASPHEMY! It's ALL about the LED light show.

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:29 am

hey neb, what preamp u been using?

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:03 am

sweetjesus wrote:hey neb, what preamp u been using?
hehe, you're gonna laugh - I use two Presonus TubePre preamps. Each is a mono path, and I've modified each with some aftermarket russian tubes.

It's no avalon, but using two separate units is just enough analog imperfection to create some nice warm sounds/patches.

mr.adl
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Post by mr.adl » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:06 pm

@soundpalace
Thanx for your detailed post!

I was thinking of getting a virus as well and stuck in the same scenario as the original poster, owning Sylenth1, Massive, Minimonsta (never get my head around Zebra so i don´t have that one) but right now i stepped bit back from the buying the virus.

I really like the GUI of the TI plugin, so clear and well laid out and i also like the filters and the overall sound of the virus, but after reading all that, i don´t see any point in getting the virus anymore.

I mix itb only but try to get a warm/phat sound using the UAD plugin which i really like.

Will keep an eye on this thread and for sure go into a musicstore to check out the new TI2 so...how knows.... :lol:

Trip Downtown
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Post by Trip Downtown » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:15 am

I've got a TI and love it. It really does have a nice thick sound to it. I also use Albino a lot but mostly for filler sounds etc. as it really doesn't stand up the same (but is really quick and easy to program). If you gonna just compare raw oscillator sounds then you're not really looking at the big picture. As someone mentioned the saturation sections really bring out the sounds (and the new OS promises more of these!) and the filters are really nice.

The OS updates are probably worth mentioning. The guys at access have kinda covered the basics now and seem to be getting into the really fun stuff. The Atomizer is wicked, the graintable stuff is really nice, looking forward to what they come up with next.

You can also bring in the 16 parts into 3 tracks. (not just 1 as mentioned by someone) Need more? Bounce to audio. If you're not into bouncing to audio then you should prob just stay with software because it's a reality of hardware in general. <shrug>

I own Albino, Massive, and Zebra and the TI is my main initial 'go to' synth. The others all have their places tho.

My $0.02 from someone that loves software and hardware synths. :)

supamonsta
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Post by supamonsta » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:45 am

Just to balance the thread, let me throw in my humble opinion:

HARDWARE?

The Ti is a HYBRID thing. Yes you can use it standalone, but you'll got to deal with a complex OS inside, dealing with pages and pages of parameters, often asking "but, where the hell am I", or " where the f*** can I reach this particular parameter???".

So they made a VST plugin to help you. So you're hooked in the software land, even if you wanted to go only hardware.

For the subjective side of the "sound"... I've always felt the Ti missing some kind of fatness and grittyness, even with the analog boost, distortion fx, sub osc... For example I find AUTOMAT much more fat for the bass side.

Anyway the Ti is a great synth, but a great synth that can really disappoint you If you don't try it before buying.

I sold mine, and I'm now much more happy with automat and massive.

Some will tell me "monstrejumo, you sold your Ti, so why don't you go somewhere else speak about your frustration?"... I know, it is probably the last time I post about the Ti, but for this one I could not avoid it ;)

Best regards,
mj

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