Ableton Forum

DjViral wrote:LOL @ 700$ billion

the country is $74 trillion dollars in debt. if all taxes were raised 100$ from now till all the baby boomers cash in their pension there still wouldn't be enough to pay a single one of them.
or they can just keep borrowing. the next generation will just get fucked

no doubt the plan is to start more wars and plunder more sovereign nations

pepezabala wrote:what was 1987? Acid house?

October 19, 1987, Black Monday, stock market crash. I remember hearing about it in the lunch line in 3rd grade.

pepezabala wrote:

forge wrote:well I just heard from an old friend who now works in the stock markets- he just said this will be remembered like 1929 and 1987

I guess that's probably obvious, just thought I'd add one of the small bits of input I can make...

what was 1987? Acid house?

Geezus wrote:yeah so somehow giving the treasury, run by the same administration that brought us Katrina and the Iraq War, unfettered access to spend 700 billion dollars without any oversight or accountability to buy a bunch of bad investments that made these institutions fail in the first place is somehow going to save our economy? How does throwing 700 billion dollars away on bad investments in order to save wall street corporations whose greed brought our economy to ruin sound the LEAST bit like a good idea? If I were in congress and had this handed to me, I'd throw the proposal on the president's desk, stand up on the desk, unsheath my rape stick and piss on it while he watches. WHAT THE FUCK

These past 8 years we have seen the biggest theft in the history of the planet. An entire nation, the dominant superpower of the world, was bled dry and its assets handed over to the wealthiest of the wealthy. I am sitting here and watching as a lame duck president is somehow opening our treasury to allow private financial institutions take what they want and NOBODY is doing a fucking thing about it. jesus christ we suck

+700 BILLION

100% agree with you

DjViral wrote:LOL @ 700$ billion

the country is $74 trillion dollars in debt. if all taxes were raised 100$ from now till all the baby boomers cash in their pension there still wouldn't be enough to pay a single one of them.
or they can just keep borrowing. the next generation will just get fucked

There is not a real limit on the amount either.

$700Billion is just the limit at any given time. The Treasury can use $700B write it off somehow, then use another $700B.

And think, for a minute, where do those 700 billion come from?!
They've got it stashed somewhere?! Do you believe that??

Nope, it's money that doesn't exist. They'll type 700$billion into those fraudulent companies accounts and that's it. Then the tax payers begin paying for it.

we are so f!#@ed.

why do I get the feeling we are going to see the amero soon.

looking at the Chinese space program today and wondered how NASA's budget scaled against $700 bn

NASAs 2008 budget is $17.3 bn per year

$700 billion would run nasa for forty years !

I only mention this because NASA is one of those things that people say should be scaled back to combat poverty, etc. Interesting that you could have an intergalactic space fleet for the same money as propping up these bad gamblers.

Dumb question - but where does the $700 billion come from?

And what type of billion is this? UK billions were different to US billions until about 30 years ago weren't they? Maybe that's the problem, someone's still using the old billions (one million million - 1,000,000,000,000).

Like how that NASA mission messed up (can't remember which- Saturn?) because some were using metric and others imperial.

the $700 is provided by US taxpayers. The money comes from "the treasury", but where does the treasury get it's money from? That's right 'the people' get taxed and services get cut to raise the cash.
IE - NASA gets cut and the poor get taxed (not the rich obviously!)
it's a debt of $10,000 per US household. That's a lot of tax !

These debts are the ones where no-one can trace the original debtor because of the maze of non-existent paperwork and shoddy companies which have handled them . These are un-recoverable debts are those that money marketeers have worked up in ill-judged speculations that have gone wrong.

I wish I could make huge mistakes like that, be paid a bonus for it AND have my mistakes fixed by the general public AND keep my job!


A US billion is indeed 1,000,000,000 , smaller than the UK equivalent of a million million.

The mars orbiter crash was caused because the US and NASA uses Imperial units (they call them 'English') of feet and inches, rather than using metres and cm. They got their measurements wrong, it was not related to any 'billions'

4rest wrote:ok i don't normally do this but i got to thinking yesterday about
bush's plan to give / loan / whatever 700 billion dollars to a FEW companys that have made VERY bad investments.....but it is said without helping these companies our economy would colapse....

well....if you take a look at the global population as of today it stands at about
6.721 billion.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

so why not just give EVERY SINGLE PERSON on planet earth 1 million dollars and call it a day.....i mean having a world of millionars should be great for the economy ...we would all be rich and wouldn't need loans from scumbags to buy a home or what have you

i know that this idea is a bit far out but come on why should the rest of us keep handing OUR money out to these fucks?

chew on that one

peace and chicken greezzz
4rest

forget 700 Billion, how about $110 TRILLION!!!
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/1 ... 464823.php

is it true that this buy is coming from the Federal Reserve?

Meef Chaloin wrote:is it true that this buy is coming from the Federal Reserve?

yes, the taxpayer is buying the debt.

Of course the idea of the 'federal reserve' is something of a misnomer these days, there is no 'reserve' any more . There's nothing in Fort Knox but cobwebs. The deregulated money markets meant that any company could spend a LOT more than it had in its vaults, and then finally many times more than it didn't have in its vaults. IE the vault is empty, so lets just print more money.

nytimes wrote: Q. Who, really, is going to come up with the $700 billion?

A. American taxpayers will come up with the money,<snip>. After the Treasury buys up those troubled mortgages, it will try to resell them to investors. <snip> But the bottom line is, yes, this bailout could cost American taxpayers a lot of money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/busin ... da.html?em

The treasury will use public money to buy the debts, that public money is obtained by 1: increased taxation, 2: cutting spending in areas that taxes are normally spent.

this means the next few years will be HARD for the American public, they will have to live without some services they have had recently and will have higher tax bills, also because of this situation their currency will be worth less. Reason 'liquidity injections'

In general : when a central bank says they want to do something such as "inject liquidity" the general public just gets bored and stops listening. What is actually happening is they 'print more money' , it's not based on any actual gold standard (there is no 'real' wealth to back it up) the newly minted money is generated by devaluing the overall value of the currency.

Imagine a vastly simplified system: there are a hundred people and each of them have one dollar, lets say one dollar buys one loaf of bread, because one loaf of bread costs one dollar in materials to make.

Assume I am in command of making those dollars for people to use, really I should just be replacing the ones that get worn out. But ... I need $50 right now. So, I just print up $50 and 'inject it into the market. Now the system has $150 in it, between 100 people . Those peoples personal dollar now has actually lost value .. it used to buy them raw materials of a loaf , but now it buys less because it is now worth only $0.66.

By adding more dollars to the system the existing dollars get devalued.
Like in Zimbabwe - they kept printing money, but that doesn't make you richer it actually makes you poorer because real world items


In the real world right now - central banks are pumping 'liquidity' into the markets, IE making more imaginary money by devaluing the currencies. What happens is that WE find that food and other commodities are more expensive.

On top of that, in the US, we see that taxpayers will ALSO have to pay more money to bail out the very people who have caused these liquidity injections to be activated. This $10, 000 tax is extra debt on top of the currency devaluation caused by 'liquidity' injections.

going out on a limb here....

so the money is coming from the federal reserve
but the federal reserve is not really a government body as such and allegedly (or not so allegedly) has lots of ties to the big private bankers
seems to be a very odd pattern emerging

is this not just what they call 'a powergrab'?

Paulson is on leave from Goldman Sachs, one of the largest investment banks in the world. Hmmm. And he worked under the Nixon administration, along with Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Bush Sr. Hmmm..... well, it's a good thing Bush Jr is telling everyone the economy will collapse if we don't give Paulson unlimited power without review!!