Ableton Forum

silverlulu wrote:forgive my immaturity but whether or not both films are 100% accurate, and whether or not utopia is where we wanna go...

the government and corporations are enslaving us and screwing the world over for profit right? are they planning one world government? total control of us? are they deliberately destroying 3rd world countries to keep them as slaves? is this 1984 style true?

it just seems that we argue over the points which divide us rather than unify on the bigger picture.

The thing to realise is :
"the government", "them", "the man", "the evil secret cabal", etc.
they are all us, people , humans. We as humans are one organism, they as dominators are like the eyeball, or the toenail.

Humans as part of the collective organism start to take on certain seemingly required roles within that organism. When you hate on "the man" for his oppressive ways you must realise you are hating on "humanity" - the particular person you hate has simply morphed into a required role. You can argue that the role of oppressor is not required, but the truth is we do not get a say on our group genetics. As a race and as individuals we have many latent facets waiting to spring to life - we are pre-programmed to mutate in certain situations.

The hippy munching on a raw organic carrot can be transformed into a greedy oppressive power broker simply by being transported into that slot of our collective organism.
Doubt that this could happen? It has been proven time and time again as people morph into oppressors simply by being put in the position to abuse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment


Many of our worst politicians actually started out as idealists who strove to break the system / the man / etc. But when they got to that position, they fullfilled the exact same specified role asthe people they ousted.

we are humans, this is what we are.
You , me , them, us, none are without "blame".

perhaps it is necessary that we are like this.

silverlulu wrote: i just want to believe in the truth

Every belief has a lie in it.

Angstrom wrote:

silverlulu wrote:forgive my immaturity but whether or not both films are 100% accurate, and whether or not utopia is where we wanna go...

the government and corporations are enslaving us and screwing the world over for profit right? are they planning one world government? total control of us? are they deliberately destroying 3rd world countries to keep them as slaves? is this 1984 style true?

it just seems that we argue over the points which divide us rather than unify on the bigger picture.

The thing to realise is :
"the government", "them", "the man", "the evil secret cabal", etc.
they are all us, people , humans. We as humans are one organism, they as dominators are like the eyeball, or the toenail.

Humans as part of the collective organism start to take on certain seemingly required roles within that organism. When you hate on "the man" for his oppressive ways you must realise you are hating on "humanity" - the particular person you hate has simply morphed into a required role. You can argue that the role of oppressor is not required, but the truth is we do not get a say on our group genetics. As a race and as individuals we have many latent facets waiting to spring to life - we are pre-programmed to mutate in certain situations.

The hippy munching on a raw organic carrot can be transformed into a greedy oppressive power broker simply by being transported into that slot of our collective organism.
Doubt that this could happen? It has been proven time and time again as people morph into oppressors simply by being put in the position to abuse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment


Many of our worst politicians actually started out as idealists who strove to break the system / the man / etc. But when they got to that position, they fullfilled the exact same specified role asthe people they ousted.

we are humans, this is what we are.
You , me , them, us, none are without "blame".

perhaps it is necessary that we are like this.

I completely agree. but don't forget what I suspect is the biggest factor in this, coersion by the corporations. As we saw in this new zeitgeist, if leaders in foreign countries can be assasinated I'm sure they'd take out the president in a heartbeat. so I guess the american government is in fact a dictatorship. but I guess I'm just regurgitating the film now.

silverlulu wrote: so I guess the american government is in fact a dictatorship.

New WORLD Order, GLOBAL Elite, it´s not just Amerika

so surely if people become what they are because of their surroundings and influence, it is essential if we are to become a better human kind, that we reject the way things are and strive for a different system?

Where did things go wrong? If we are the product of our environment, how did evil come about in the first place? If money is where things go wrong, was there no evil before money? Why did we create money in the first place? It seems pretty extreme to trace all our problems back to money, but maybe so.

yep, them bullets just keep killing people.
bullets are the problem.

Angstrom wrote:yep, them bullets just keep killing people.
bullets are the problem.

Guns don't kill people..
Bullets kill people!!!
BAN THE BULLETS!!

whoa, I just slammed my fingers in a door

ban doors !

Angstrom wrote:whoa, I just slammed my fingers in a door

ban doors !

When i am the great leader of the whole world doors and bullets will be made of sponge!!
VOTE FOR ME NOW AND YOU WILL NEVER NEED TO VOTE AGAIN!!

fuck man, life is so shit.

Homebelly wrote:

Angstrom wrote:yep, them bullets just keep killing people.
bullets are the problem.

Guns don't kill people..
Bullets kill people!!!
BAN THE BULLETS!!

It's usually people that kill people actually.

that was my point.

it's not 'money' or 'capitalism' which cause the problems

it's people which cause the problems - money and capitalism are expressions of our innate desires, so the idea that by wishing the product away we will cure ourselves .. well, it's just fanciful.


It does not matter what you "want" or "prefer", we are still subject to nature and our collective nature is not all good.

I think we have the answer then..........

Ban people!

(Edited to add smiley just in case anyone thinks I'm serious)
Is it only me who thinks that serious never looks like it's spelt correctly?

"Kill 'em all and let a Norse God sort 'em out" - Propagandhi