why is so expensive?

tedlogan · Post by **tedlogan** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:11 am

[/quote]Its tough shit in your world but in the real world if you can't afford software its cracked and you can get it for free its "illegal" but its completely moral and commendable and it only becomes "tough shit" for the developer that refuses to make their software affordable to everyone. If you don't like that then "tough shit" right back at you strong man.
Does it piss you off when other people who have the same skill set as you have the same opportunities as you? Im not going to get into the differences between a fucking gibson guitar and a piece of software because they are night and fucking day and should be obvious to any capitalist simpleton.
I take being called a hippie as a complement.. unrealistic? You are the one not realizing the world does not need to operate on greed and elitism, you are the one who can't see beyond the world they were born into.[/quote]

I see. Let's just say, hypothetically speaking, that you can clone a Gibson guitar (I do think Live is infinitely more valuable and is MUCH cheaper), would you copy it illegally? Do you want everything for free, and other people should just work hard and make these products for you so you can express yourself?

Listen, I don't like the greedy world we live in either, I hate our money-based society. It is a cancer and I do wish (foolishly) that one day things will be better and everyone will respect each other and love one another and ponies will ride alongside me on the rainbow-coloured streets. But the reality IS indeed "tough shit", unless, as you say, you pirate it.

I'm no "strong man", I worked many years for minimum wage, yet I still saved for Live and other gear. What is Live's actual profit margin? No idea. Perhaps it IS grossly inflated and greedy.

Have a calm day. Not being sarcastic.

EDIT: My apologies, you did say you don't want anything for free, you just want fair trade etc. I agree with this in it's very ideal, but I don't think it's realistic. This is all I meant. I use too many words.

Reversoulmusic · Post by **Reversoulmusic** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:31 pm

Justin made things a lot easier for people like you

http://www.reaper.fm/

BoddAH · Post by **BoddAH** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:39 pm

You know what Jimi Hendrix did when he wanted to learn the guitar but didn't have the money to buy a decent one?

He didn't complain on some forum that him being poor is discriminatory and that Gibson Les Pauls should be free.

He got an ukulele with only one string.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:34 am

@socialism: You forgot to mention that there wouldn't be a live if we had it

@reaper: I refuse to support them

@hendrix: Are you for real?

@price: Yeah, it cost a fracking fortune. I'm not going to whine about but I'm not upset if someone wants to complain about the pricing. Look at logic pro 7. It was 1000usd. Now? 200 bucks. Complaining about the price may help bring it down, more power to you. Now excuse me while I get back to my very expensive live.

nathannn · Post by **nathannn** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:43 am

BoddAH wrote:You know what Jimi Hendrix did when he wanted to learn the guitar but didn't have the money to buy a decent one?

He didn't complain on some forum that him being poor is discriminatory and that Gibson Les Pauls should be free.

He got an ukulele with only one string.

His dad gave this to him and then his dad bought him an actual guitar, how does this relate to the topic?

For the second time, I never said a Les Paul should be free I never even said live should be free.
You people are just not getting that something that can be mass produced as cheaply as software should be availible to everyone at a an affordable price.
Stop twisting my words with this ridiculous bullshit about free fucking les pauls Lol

it seriously makes me question your mental capacity to understand new idea's.

nathannn · Post by **nathannn** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:49 am

eyeknow wrote:@socialism: You forgot to mention that there wouldn't be a live if we had it

@reaper: I refuse to support them

@hendrix: Are you for real?

@price: Yeah, it cost a fracking fortune. I'm not going to whine about but I'm not upset if someone wants to complain about the pricing. Look at logic pro 7. It was 1000usd. Now? 200 bucks. Complaining about the price may help bring it down, more power to you. Now excuse me while I get back to my very expensive live.

I dont understand if you had a point to make or if you are just typing for the sake of typing.

BoddAH · Post by **BoddAH** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:27 am

nathannn wrote:
BoddAH wrote:You know what Jimi Hendrix did when he wanted to learn the guitar but didn't have the money to buy a decent one?

He didn't complain on some forum that him being poor is discriminatory and that Gibson Les Pauls should be free.

He got an ukulele with only one string.
His dad gave this to him and then his dad bought him an actual guitar, how does this relate to the topic?

For the second time, I never said a Les Paul should be free I never even said live should be free.
You people are just not getting that something that can be mass produced as cheaply as software should be availible to everyone at a an affordable price.
Stop twisting my words with this ridiculous bullshit about free fucking les pauls Lol it seriously makes me question your mental capacity to understand new idea's.

Well at the end of the day it's just basic economics anyway. Just like pretty much all businesses, Ableton isn't into charity. A lower price could work (generate more revenue) with a new business model based on selling huge amounts of the software but this only works with iPhone apps that many people actually want/need and games. Ableton Live is still a pretty niche software product. The serious/professional producer market is relatively small and there's literally a dozen DAWs sharing that market. Selling the software for cheap would be financial suicide because a cheaper program wouldn't increase sales by much but certainly reduce income.

If, serious producers are ready to pay the current price, why should they reduce it?

Apple only chose to reduce the price for Logic because Logic being attractive may boost Mac sales which is good for them and because the potential audience for Logic is huge (basically any music producer with a Mac and user of Garageband, especially now with the lower price and the convenience of the App store).

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:34 am

nathannn wrote:
eyeknow wrote:@socialism: You forgot to mention that there wouldn't be a live if we had it

@reaper: I refuse to support them

@hendrix: Are you for real?

@price: Yeah, it cost a fracking fortune. I'm not going to whine about but I'm not upset if someone wants to complain about the pricing. Look at logic pro 7. It was 1000usd. Now? 200 bucks. Complaining about the price may help bring it down, more power to you. Now excuse me while I get back to my very expensive live.
I dont understand if you had a point to make or if you are just typing for the sake of typing.

Yeah, that's me spending all my time posting here. Here's a good chop to that chip on your shoulder

UncleAge · Post by **UncleAge** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:00 am

nathannn wrote:You people are just not getting that something that can be mass produced as cheaply as software should be availible to everyone at a an affordable price.

It's not just that I disagree with this statement, it's full of assumptions as well. I highly doubt that you know the costs of developing and maintaining Live.

In addition, if the price were higher than the market would bear then the price would be lowered or the company would lose sales. And the cost to create it has nothing to do with what they are allowed to sell it for.

If you take a small breather you might realize that you're just player hating. Ableton didn't start this game and they don't get to make the rules.

Want to teach them a lesson? Build a better program.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:22 pm

UncleAge wrote: Want to teach them a lesson? Build a better program.

Are we not remembering the hard lessons of bitwig?

H20nly · Post by **H20nly** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:49 pm

eyeknow wrote:
UncleAge wrote: Want to teach them a lesson? Build a better program.
Are we not remembering the hard lessons of bitwig?

UncleAge · Post by **UncleAge** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:02 pm

eyeknow wrote:
UncleAge wrote: Want to teach them a lesson? Build a better program.
Are we not remembering the hard lessons of bitwig?

What lessons? Instead of just bitchin about things they took the initiative to make a better program. Jury is still out on the outcome.

H20nly · Post by **H20nly** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:37 pm

the jury:

UncleAge · Post by **UncleAge** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:44 pm

puzzlefactory · Post by **puzzlefactory** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:08 pm

nathannn wrote:Why were they all shitting on the op?
Ableton live is too expensive, hes right.
Abletons market is mostly musicians and musicians starting out usually don't have a lot of money.
These assholes that were telling him to "get a job" are not realizing that a musician can not only be a job but also business.
No kid nor poor person should feel guilty for downloading "illegal" copies of anything especially when the software can be used to get out of poverty or at least escape the weight of poverty for a few hours. You shouldn't feel bad breaking a law if it will help a human. You especially should feel good breaking laws that hurt humans.

These software companies know that they could charge an amount for the software where everyone could afford it and still make their greedy profit.
Its just Elitism The 3 people that are the heads of Ableton know this.

I dont care about the childish argument of "well its mine and I can charge whatever I want", If you have a tool that is useful to the human race but will only let the human race use it at a price that puts it out of reach of most people you are no better than the health care business of the U.S. You have something and you are dangling it in front of people who have a need for it Fuck You.

Low cost software being successful on the ipad is proof that charging hundreds of dollars for software is unneeded and an old elitist business model.

You don't have to buy it. It's a luxury item, which you can buy if you can afford it. It's not necessary for your survival or even your creative expression. If you can't afford it then get something else. Get the lite version, get Reaper, get Reason Essentials, buy a copy of computer music magazine and use the free sequencer and plugins which come with that.

You can't justify piracy just because some people can't afford it. Hell i saw a video of a musician who made a career out of playing a bucket. So, creativity can come out of anywhere. You don't need the latest greatest piece of software.

And it's not a childish argument to say "it's mine, i can charge what i want". That's how products work. If they were charging to much then they wouldn't sell any and would be out of business. So it's a business model that works (hardly out dated at all).

And please, comparing a luxury item to health care?

why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?

Re: why is so expensive?