the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

[rote fahne]

why offensive? It is just a matter of different fields. You keep talking about "engineers", "sound technology" etc. I just ask you: can you warp an audio file song from major to minor key? This is a musical question. The fact you can edit an audio file, changing pitch, volume etc. is not at all musical. It is acoustic.

NO, its you that keeps sticking to the mantra that audio is only sound is only engineering and/or acoustical parameters, and then telling me that I am confused.

Get some help man.

[rote fahne]

why offensive? It is just a matter of different fields. You keep talking about "engineers", "sound technology" etc. I just ask you: can you warp an audio file song from major to minor key? This is a musical question. The fact you can edit an audio file, changing pitch, volume etc. is not at all musical. It is acoustic.

You can change pitch parameters, you can change rhythm parameters, you can change tempo parameters in an audiofile, and you are going to say that that is not musical?

I give up.

[9V]

sorry, but once you told me you are not a musician and you never compose. Now you say i am wrong because audio "can contain" (?!) musical elements. That is not true, of course. It cannot contain musical elements, unless you as a musician are the interpreter (but music, in this case, is in your mind, because it is a grammar: you just take the sound and "read" it in your mind with musical rules). For the computer audio is sound, no music instructions at all. MIDI is music, though, because of the code.

[rote fahne]

sorry, but once you told me you are not a musician and you never compose.

Well if you had read carefully through all my posts, then you would have found that I wrote some counterpoints, and I wrote some 8 measure themes, i.e. periods and sentences.

And no, you dont have to put up any music for me, cause I'm pretty sure it is some terrible muzak.

I wrote MUZAK, not music.

[rote fahne]

Man, I'm even bored with Stockhausen, I already knew his music 25 years ago. I got about all the books by Schoenberg, and you are going to tell me that I dont understand about music.

Dont serve me staled bread and tell me that it is fresh, cause Im not going to buy it.

[9V]

You can change pitch parameters, you can change rhythm parameters, you can change tempo parameters in an audiofile

[rote fahne]

You can change pitch parameters, you can change rhythm parameters, you can change tempo parameters in an audiofile

Getting back being an ignorant arrogant I see.

[rote fahne]

Het is een verschrikkelijke eikel eerste klas, niet te geloven.

[9V]

just upset, because of the third revolution! So, how can you warp an mp3 from major key to minor key? How can you transform a 4/4 mp3 song into a 7/8 hacker hymn? Tell me, please!

http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sxNy0qQ ... re=related

[macmurphy]

music is in the ear of the beholder. now how about we all shut the fuck up and go and listen to or make some.

[rote fahne]

sorry, but once you told me you are not a musician and you never compose. Now you say i am wrong because audio "can contain" (?!) musical elements. That is not true, of course. It cannot contain musical elements, unless you as a musician are the interpreter (but music, in this case, is in your mind, because it is a grammar: you just take the sound and "read" it in your mind with musical rules). For the computer audio is sound, no music instructions at all. MIDI is music, though, because of the code.

Ah, computers itself can have concepts about what is music and what is not.

Must be the 4th revolution.

After the 5th Im going to shag your wife.

[Theo Void]

Ya, this debate is beyond retarded but it's like a train-wreck, I can't stop looking.

Anyway, by changing the pitch you CAN change audio from Major to Minor. That's the whole meaning of Pitch. It defines keys.
Also, everything you do w/ audio is musical. You say that audio is sound and is not music but MIDI is music because it's code. Well, MIDI is just a set of instructions and just because those instructions include note symbols does not make it music. Audio is also code. It's binary, therefore, in your logic, it IS music.

Anyway, your a purist? ................WHY?

[9V]

sorry, but once you told me you are not a musician and you never compose. Now you say i am wrong because audio "can contain" (?!) musical elements. That is not true, of course. It cannot contain musical elements, unless you as a musician are the interpreter (but music, in this case, is in your mind, because it is a grammar: you just take the sound and "read" it in your mind with musical rules). For the computer audio is sound, no music instructions at all. MIDI is music, though, because of the code.

Ah, computers itself can have concepts about what is music and what is not.

Must be the 4th revolution.

After the 5th Im going to shag your wife.

"concepts" is not the right word. "Instructions". Computers work with instructions. Audio gives only sound elements, waveforms, volume etc. not musical instructions. Only MIDI gives music (tonal) instructions. So, yes: a computer of course can interpret midi instructions and give a musical representation of them (see software like finale, sibelius and all midi sequencers). It is not that revolution, indeed... For instance, you could warp a midi song from major to midi key automatically (i guess programs like band in a box can do that). You can't with audio material, of course. The one who will discover how to do that will win the nobel prize, i guess

[9V]

Ya, this debate is beyond retarded but it's like a train-wreck, I can't stop looking.

Anyway, by changing the pitch you CAN change audio from Major to Minor. That's the whole meaning of Pitch. It defines keys.
Also, everything you do w/ audio is musical. You say that audio is sound and is not music but MIDI is music because it's code. Well, MIDI is just a set of instructions and just because those instructions include note symbols does not make it music. Audio is also code. It's binary, therefore, in your logic, it IS music.

Anyway, your a purist? ................WHY?

sorry, but pitch is not music... and you of course cannot warp an audio song from major to minor key... maybe working on singolar elements of sound (like with melodyne), that is to say transforming little wavforms into midi elements (analyzing the volume peaks etc.). But it is artificial, and very imprecise (distortion, crossfades etc.). See the rex files and things like that. And it works only with monophonic melodies, with polyphonic and/or complex music it is impossible. So, no: audio has no musical code. Only sound parameters (for sound engineering).

[rote fahne]

Audio gives only sound elements, waveforms, volume etc. not musical instructions.

Yeh, but that doesnt mean the music is not there. My screen only renders pixels. But if I open a file with a picture, I see the picture.

In fact the audio file is a set of instructions as well, its only hard to get if have a look at the resulting single file. That has to do with superposition.