Updates from Afghanistan

[Tone Deft]

it is moderated, his name is chaos.


requests like this remind me of the bridge scene in Apocalypse Now.

[sweetjesus]

Man I don't care if you're on the left or the right - someone needs to come on here and moderate this ish.

who will moderate the moderator?

what will the rules of engagement be?

if the moderator is not moderating in a way that benefits certain entities, will M Breq's be allowed to invade and start a war in the moderators backyard?

ok im being stupid,

maybe you're right.. but i prefer this place as whacky as it is..

[sweetjesus]

this remind me of the bridge scene in Apocalypse Now.

:D

[Machinesworking]

Not sure if he manages to change any minds on these forums, BUT, he makes most of you extremists on the left look like a bunch of twits. Formulating intelligent response to the other side's opinions is a skill a lot of ppl on this forum truly lack.

I don't think so at all.. It's just that any time anybody asks the dominant culture to take responsibility for their part in ANY problem, the moderate and conservatives try to say it's not that black and white etc.
Here's a great really solid simple answer as to why we are in the middle east at all, OIL. Pretend it's more complicated and that we have more than just oil in mind all you want, but you're not fooling anybody but yourselves.

Again, US and British history paints a picture of cultures that use foreign governments as chess pieces with little or no concern about the politics or human rights of those involved if a profit is to be made.


Plus mbreqs just stereotyped sweetjesus, an Iranian to fit his own agenda, and started in on a flame war with him. I hardly see that as skillful debate or a sign of intelligence. But hey, if you want to try to act like your own perspective is somehow more enlightened, go ahead, join the crowd.

[glu]

Mbreqs is using eurocentric cultural beliefs to rationalize the neoliberalisation of the Middle East. There's not much more to this discourse, why hasn't this thread died yet?

[b0unce]

it usually disappears into nothingness until Rambo eventually bumps it again, because it's accomplishing something apparently.
Those PM's don't send themselves y'know.

I don't see why he can't just start a blog at blogspot.com or the like and put a link in his sig ?

Oh wait...then he'd have to show some signs of genuine interest in other discussions on the board,
of course that won't do.

[Homebelly]

it usually disappears into nothingness until Rambo eventually bumps it again, because it's accomplishing something apparently.
Those PM's don't send themselves y'know.

I don't see why he can't just start a blog at blogspot.com or the like and put a link in his sig ?

Oh wait...then he'd have to show some signs of genuine interest in other discussions on the board,
of course that won't do.

[smutek]

this remind me of the bridge scene in Apocalypse Now.

Who's in charge here soldier?

I thought you were sir?

[jashic]

Not sure if he manages to change any minds on these forums, BUT, he makes most of you extremists on the left look like a bunch of twits. Formulating intelligent response to the other side's opinions is a skill a lot of ppl on this forum truly lack.

I don't think so at all.. It's just that any time anybody asks the dominant culture to take responsibility for their part in ANY problem, the moderate and conservatives try to say it's not that black and white etc.
Here's a great really solid simple answer as to why we are in the middle east at all, OIL. Pretend it's more complicated and that we have more than just oil in mind all you want, but you're not fooling anybody but yourselves.

Again, US and British history paints a picture of cultures that use foreign governments as chess pieces with little or no concern about the politics or human rights of those involved if a profit is to be made.


Plus mbreqs just stereotyped sweetjesus, an Iranian to fit his own agenda, and started in on a flame war with him. I hardly see that as skillful debate or a sign of intelligence. But hey, if you want to try to act like your own perspective is somehow more enlightened, go ahead, join the crowd.

Btw, Afghanistan has no oil, just poppies.

[siddhu]

Not sure if he manages to change any minds on these forums, BUT, he makes most of you extremists on the left look like a bunch of twits. Formulating intelligent response to the other side's opinions is a skill a lot of ppl on this forum truly lack.

I don't think so at all.. It's just that any time anybody asks the dominant culture to take responsibility for their part in ANY problem, the moderate and conservatives try to say it's not that black and white etc.
Here's a great really solid simple answer as to why we are in the middle east at all, OIL. Pretend it's more complicated and that we have more than just oil in mind all you want, but you're not fooling anybody but yourselves.

Again, US and British history paints a picture of cultures that use foreign governments as chess pieces with little or no concern about the politics or human rights of those involved if a profit is to be made.


Plus mbreqs just stereotyped sweetjesus, an Iranian to fit his own agenda, and started in on a flame war with him. I hardly see that as skillful debate or a sign of intelligence. But hey, if you want to try to act like your own perspective is somehow more enlightened, go ahead, join the crowd.

Btw, Afghanistan has no oil, just poppies.

It's extremely important on geo strategic level. It provides the closest sea port to the vast Central Asian oil and gas reserves. Which was one of the reasons for the Soviet invasion.

There have been several attempts by Western oil companies to run a pipeline through Afghanistan to its ocean ports, but non have come to fruit due to political instability and the Afghans historical hatred of outsiders.

It is widely documented how the Americans were trying to build friendly relations with the Taliban in exchange for their support in the construction of an oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan.

The Taliban leadership was even hosted as VIPs in the US in 2001 to try to convince them to let the pipeline happen.

The clincher is that they then threatened the Taliban with military force if they did not give permission.

Yeah right, the West is there because they care about the "ragheads"!

[siddhu]

Forgot to mention that one of Hamid Karzai's first acts in office was to sign off on the pipeline deal.

[Machinesworking]

I don't think so at all.. It's just that any time anybody asks the dominant culture to take responsibility for their part in ANY problem, the moderate and conservatives try to say it's not that black and white etc.
Here's a great really solid simple answer as to why we are in the middle east at all, OIL. Pretend it's more complicated and that we have more than just oil in mind all you want, but you're not fooling anybody but yourselves.

Again, US and British history paints a picture of cultures that use foreign governments as chess pieces with little or no concern about the politics or human rights of those involved if a profit is to be made.


Plus mbreqs just stereotyped sweetjesus, an Iranian to fit his own agenda, and started in on a flame war with him. I hardly see that as skillful debate or a sign of intelligence. But hey, if you want to try to act like your own perspective is somehow more enlightened, go ahead, join the crowd.

Btw, Afghanistan has no oil, just poppies.

It's extremely important on geo strategic level. It provides the closest sea port to the vast Central Asian oil and gas reserves. Which was one of the reasons for the Soviet invasion.

There have been several attempts by Western oil companies to run a pipeline through Afghanistan to its ocean ports, but non have come to fruit due to political instability and the Afghans historical hatred of outsiders.

It is widely documented how the Americans were trying to build friendly relations with the Taliban in exchange for their support in the construction of an oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan.

The Taliban leadership was even hosted as VIPs in the US in 2001 to try to convince them to let the pipeline happen.

The clincher is that they then threatened the Taliban with military force if they did not give permission.

Yeah right, the West is there because they care about the "ragheads"!

Jashic, not trying to win any debate here, but if you aren't aware of the history of Afghanistan and why Russia invaded, what Russian relations with Afghanistan meant in terms of the CIA/SIS involvement in the coup against Iran's democratic government in the 50's and installment of the Sha, which in turn caused a religious uprising leading to the situation now, then this is a really really good time historically to look into it. It's important on every level that violence, imperialism and basic arrogance is not what the west is known for world wide, and if we continue to propagate doublespeak and use people and corrupt governments as pawns in our global chess game, then we will continue to look like liars and users.

[Homebelly]

It's extremely important on geo strategic level. It provides the closest sea port to the vast Central Asian oil and gas reserves. Which was one of the reasons for the Soviet invasion.

although there is some truth in your whole rant about pipelines and so forth,,
you should probably try and get a little more background from some place other than Mike Moore. To begin with Afghanistan is land locked and has no ports.

[pepezabala]

Btw, Afghanistan has no oil, just poppies.

It's extremely important on geo strategic level. It provides the closest sea port to the vast Central Asian oil and gas reserves. Which was one of the reasons for the Soviet invasion.

There have been several attempts by Western oil companies to run a pipeline through Afghanistan to its ocean ports, but non have come to fruit due to political instability and the Afghans historical hatred of outsiders.

It is widely documented how the Americans were trying to build friendly relations with the Taliban in exchange for their support in the construction of an oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan.

The Taliban leadership was even hosted as VIPs in the US in 2001 to try to convince them to let the pipeline happen.

The clincher is that they then threatened the Taliban with military force if they did not give permission.

Yeah right, the West is there because they care about the "ragheads"!

Jashic, not trying to win any debate here, but if you aren't aware of the history of Afghanistan and why Russia invaded, what Russian relations with Afghanistan meant in terms of the CIA/SIS involvement in the coup against Iran's democratic government in the 50's and installment of the Sha, which in turn caused a religious uprising leading to the situation now, then this is a really really good time historically to look into it. It's important on every level that violence, imperialism and basic arrogance is not what the west is known for world wide, and if we continue to propagate doublespeak and use people and corrupt governments as pawns in our global chess game, then we will continue to look like liars and users.

But the point with the poppies is right. It's not only about pipelines and religion, it's a drug war as well. Come on, under the Taliban they say they nearly stopped the production of Opium, since the invasion they are producing more than ever. Probably the biggest tax-free enterprise worldwide. Especially the western governments are known for drug-trading as part of their (imperialist) strategies. Remember opium-wars in china? Remember Iran-Contras affair? CIA-airplanes full of cocaine crashing in Mexico?
Can't believe that this doesn't play a role in the actual situation in Afghanistan. There are people that say that the NATO has gone there in order to keep the production safe.

[sweetjesus]

all this truth is making my head hurt, can we please go back to name calling?