Ableton Forum

Machinesworking wrote:
I'm really kind of shocked at this one, that Bitwig implemented long held user requests is seen as copying LIve because Live could get them in the future?

AND, it seems they are gonna do it before Live does or dosent. I imagine company meetings where some guys at Ableton are like, "No a rewrite would fuck everything up, take to long, cost to much." And a few programmers are saying "But it's essential we do this, have some faith we can pull this off in a shorter amount of time than you think, just do A B and C then BLAMO!! whole new Live and Ableton will raise the bar and remain on top," and then some boss says "No I dont think we should do that, to risky."

Now we have bitwig on the horizon.

JuanSOLO wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:
I'm really kind of shocked at this one, that Bitwig implemented long held user requests is seen as copying LIve because Live could get them in the future?

AND, it seems they are gonna do it before Live does or dosent. I imagine company meetings where some guys at Ableton are like, "No a rewrite would fuck everything up, take to long, cost to much." And a few programmers are saying "But it's essential we do this, have some faith we can pull this off in a shorter amount of time than you think, just do A B and C then BLAMO!! whole new Live and Ableton will raise the bar and remain on top," and then some boss says "No I dont think we should do that, to risky."

Now we have bitwig on the horizon.

I wonder if they know that many of the features weren't possible to implement in Live with out a rewrite. So Live developers are stucked trying to find solutions and they just went and made in the right way.

With such a long gap since the last version, is there really any possibility that is ISN'T a complete rewrite, and ISN'T 64-bit?

ikeaboy wrote: Also what's the deal with the Loud and quiet section on there compressor I wonder? And Bitwig have copied shit loads of stuff, right down to signal flow indicators between devices.

You seriously can't think that Ableton have a corner on level meters? or that it's somehow wrong to use them between devices because other companies do?

Again, I'm excited to see if they have a great workflow going and excited to see what Ableton bring out for Live 9. The one very obvious and IMO great thing about this is Ableton now have to answer this by at least starting the public beta process on Live 9 soon. I don't think there's any other rational answer to this. If they try suing Bitwig, they will eventually lose, too many examples in other DAWs of outright copying of ideas and even lay out. Plus it would alienate some of their audience.

strode420 wrote:With such a long gap since the last version, is there really any possibility that is ISN'T a complete rewrite, and ISN'T 64-bit?

One would hope.

Machinesworking wrote:I'm really kind of shocked at this one, that Bitwig implemented long held user requests is seen as copying LIve because Live could get them in the future?

no, I didn't say that.. I said that about 80% of the core app is the same, where it is different is almost entirely based on user requests or obvious future features..

strode420 wrote:With such a long gap since the last version, is there really any possibility that is ISN'T a complete rewrite, and ISN'T 64-bit?

Whatever they bring, I'm assuming it's going to be different than what has been before, and hopefully it's stable and includes live performance enhancements.
Very curious as to how they respond.

Machinesworking wrote:and hopefully it's stable and includes live performance enhancements.
Very curious as to how they respond.

NI responded to performance enhancements in a big way with the new Traktor controller. I just got blown back a bit by it. As far as people interested in using controller to perform with Live, NI pretty much outshined everyone with this shit. I'm pretty sure bitwig is not offering this kind of stuff either.

Poster wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:I'm really kind of shocked at this one, that Bitwig implemented long held user requests is seen as copying LIve because Live could get them in the future?

no, I didn't say that.. I said that about 80% of the core app is the same, where it is different is almost entirely based on user requests or obvious future features..

Well the obvious indication of that I think you'll agree is that the features that make Bitwig different from Live etc. are things people want and things Live doesn't have. The insinuation is that because it's things Live users want, those features are some how linked to Live, and that Live will eventually get them. I really don't know what else to make of what you're implying. Though it's been at least since 2003 that people have requested dual monitor support and record to session clips, so if Live does get them soon, that's great, but from what the past reveals, it's not high on their list of priorities.

I like Ableton and most of my interactions with the employees have been really great, but I'm not going to sit around and wait for Live to become the sequencer their "clone" is, if it happens that their "clone" comes through with features I feel will improve my user experience. Especially not based on the possibility that Ableton start implementing years old user requests, and even more so, not based on Abletons "ownership" of user requests!

so did the beta sta rt already ??

The IP/plagiarism arguments mean nothing to us as punters. If this product works well and does what I want, I'll be buying it. I'd be amazed if anyone here thought differently than that.

I think it's a tribute to Ableton that they have customers who feel emotionally involved with Ableton Live, but there is a limit to that emotive investment. We are surely just using tools here, and if a better hammer comes along - I'm going to be using it!

The only reason I am here at all is because Ableton Live currently works the best for me out of the currently existing software. If it was Reaper I'd use Reaper, if it's Bitwig I'll use that.

JuanSOLO wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:and hopefully it's stable and includes live performance enhancements.
Very curious as to how they respond.

NI responded to performance enhancements in a big way with the new Traktor controller. I just got blown back a bit by it. As far as people interested in using controller to perform with Live, NI pretty much outshined everyone with this shit. I'm pretty sure bitwig is not offering this kind of stuff either.

Well the problem there would be that I'm not a DJ, much respect for good DJs etc. but I tend to play keyboards and guitar 75% of the time in a live situation. So how a program handles changing plug ins and mapping FX etc. is paramount.

What excites me in terms of Bitwig is surprisingly enough the composition aspects. Having to switch between Session and Arrangement View to build a song from clips is awkward. You end up "jamming" out the song and fixing it in arrange. If Bitwig take, (or have taken) the nested clips approach a little further then you could arrange songs in a similar way to what DP does with Chunks where a Chunk can be anything really.

So far it doesn't look like they added in anything akin to Mainstage or Kore which IMO is the area that Live is lacking in the most.

dont think so, I thought I read on their Facebook page that it was a week or two. I could have read that in some random source though.

I would think we'd have seen a post already if it was underway.

Machinesworking wrote:I really don't know what else to make of what you're implying.

I was commenting on the 'clone' debate, that's all.. not implying that much really..
you can laugh about the user requests part but let's face it; for BW that has been a free specification list..
so my point was and is; hardly any ideas/features are truly theirs..

It would be fun that hot keys on bitwig are similar to live's for similar actions XD

That would help a lot for the transition