what will be YOUR MAXIMUM budget for Max for Live ...???

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:24 pm

beatpoet wrote:
stringtapper wrote:
beatpoet wrote:Ah, I see.

Now stop misediting my quotes.
You talking to me? All I did was take out the internal quotes so they don't take up so much space. You aren't being taken out of context or anything.
No beef, the wink was directed at Abes, not you, as in all the info we're getting about Max for Live is from cycling etc.

It's true. Even the one person answering question about it around here is the Cycling '74 "mole" that's in Berlin.

beatpoet · Post by **beatpoet** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:28 pm

stringtapper wrote:
beatpoet wrote:
Maybe the APC will sit differently in this, as Akai have created a patch, but there is no way we will have full access to say a monome without paying full whack for Max/MSP, if we did nobody would buy Max/MSP
That's an incorrect assumption. One more time: M4L IS Max in every way except standalone operation, VST export, and standalone creation.

From what jeremy was saying in the other thread I understand that MFL conducts all external communication through Live so therefore would not have the capability to create devices that communicate over OSC, however they coud be used in that environment, would you think that is correct ?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:46 pm

beatpoet wrote:
stringtapper wrote:
beatpoet wrote:
Maybe the APC will sit differently in this, as Akai have created a patch, but there is no way we will have full access to say a monome without paying full whack for Max/MSP, if we did nobody would buy Max/MSP
That's an incorrect assumption. One more time: M4L IS Max in every way except standalone operation, VST export, and standalone creation.
From what jeremy was saying in the other thread I understand that MFL conducts all external communication through Live so therefore would not have the capability to create devices that communicate over OSC, however they coud be used in that environment, would you think that is correct ?

no.

max has objects that can package data in a number of ways, one of them being UDP which carries OSC. then there's rewire and midi which can also communicate with the outside world.

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:52 pm

Consider this crpytic statement from Jeremy concerning OSC in Live 8, from the Cycling '74 forum:

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:29
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: monohusche wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:26
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > By the way, jeremy, not sure whether this was asked before, do you know about OSC support for Live 8 ? understanding you sitting here in Berlin

> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Whatever I might know goes with me to my grave until such time as there has been a feature announcement confirming or denying said knowledge.
>
> You can certainly use OSC in Max for Live, though.
>
> jb
----------------------------------------------------

pechnatunk · Post by **pechnatunk** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:30 am

It seems like everyone is manic - excited but freaking out about what it can do for them.

As a Max/MSP user - I will buy this regardless of the price (within reason of course) owning both Max5 and Live 8 would have limitations compared to owning M4L. Rewiring programs essentially disables both the audio and midi of one program. In M4L, although Live handles audio and midi in/out, since its an add-on, all the Max objects are still active. eg. a midi cable carries data, just like a midi output, so if you really wanted to you could send bogus binary, hex or profanities you constructed in Max to live and out the midi out. Or you could do something useful and construct NRPN's and automate your hardware - any hardware (if you construct the messages right), even buy a MIDI to CV converter and control analogue gear too.

Max has udpsend~ and udprecieve~ - so you can basically send whatever msg you want at crazy speeds over a network = OSC.

In addition, although I'm not certain of the extent of the integration M4L will be much more than modifying some cycling plugins - I'm expecting the ability to automate and randomise and trigger elements of Live modules and clips.
Thats pretty awesome.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:36 am

stringtapper wrote:Consider this crpytic statement from Jeremy concerning OSC in Live 8, from the Cycling '74 forum:

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:29
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: monohusche wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:26
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > By the way, jeremy, not sure whether this was asked before, do you know about OSC support for Live 8 ? understanding you sitting here in Berlin
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Whatever I might know goes with me to my grave until such time as there has been a feature announcement confirming or denying said knowledge.
>
> You can certainly use OSC in Max for Live, though.
>
> jb
----------------------------------------------------

I'm trying to think of a simile for a "very leaky thing"

leaky like a swiss cheese in a machine gun fight
leaky like a tissue paper spacesuit
leaky like a leak and potato soup, except without the potato

hmm, nope nothing quite does it.

So, OSC then eh?

deva · Post by **deva** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:06 am

3dot... wrote:if Midi is coming through live...
and no option for OSC... or other types of remote control..
this should be less than half of what max costs...

It has already been stated that OSC will be possible through MfL.

Anything you can do with Max/msp/jitter you can do with MfL

deva · Post by **deva** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:08 am

beatpoet wrote:
Maybe the APC will sit differently in this, as Akai have created a patch, but there is no way we will have full access to say a monome without paying full whack for Max/MSP, if we did nobody would buy Max/MSP

We will have full access... the reason someone will still buy Max/MSP is because they do not use Live

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:21 am

I think the thing we keep forgetting (me too) is that they have said that M4L will have access to an official Live API. So that's where the answer to the OSC question lies, I'm sure.

Chang · Post by **Chang** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:36 am

Unfortunately, this make me believe its going to be near full price for M4L.

"The equation works both ways: If you already own Max, Max for Live provides straightforward tools for controlling Live from your Max environment. Maybe you want to exploit Live's timeline, or work some magic with the Session View—it's up to you. If you own Max 5, this will be your editing environment when you open up a Max for Live device. Please note, though, that Max for Live doesn't include a version of Live."

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:44 am

'very leaky thing' sounds like an underworld song

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:56 am

I doubt it will cost much less than the retail price for Max, if it gives the same functionality across the board. If the functionality is more limited, then perhaps it would be cheaper.

I think 200 - 250 dollars is a fair enough price personally. If it were to go above 300 dollars, I could definitely see some of the wild interest seen on this forum going up in vapor.

Ableton will sell it's 'almost infinite creative potential' etc to Live users and sure, for some it would be worth paying the same as Max if they have oodles of time on their hands to learn a very challenging and initially frustrating program to build a few wacky FX and synths.

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:07 am

It's been hinted by folks who know that current Max users will get a price that won't break the bank.

I just can't see it being more than $300. The fact that you have to buy Live 8 in order to run it tells me it's unlikely they will charge full price. My guess is still that it will have a price comparable with the other Live instruments + $100 or so due to the nature of the beast.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:28 am

Max users might get a break on it, but will Ableton users with no Max experience or usage of Cycling 74 products previously get a break - this is what is important

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:40 am

I am guessing the price will be between 200 and 250 USD, just similiar to the education pricings on MAX/MSP and Jitter. I further bet that the pricing for us current MAX users will be 129-139 USD. The lowest I can possibly imaging it being is 89USD, which is what I feel I would prefer to spend, seeing as though I dished out for MAX 5 and will be upgrading to the Boxed version of Live 8. These are my blind guesses.

I think it's tricky to ask for too much money from people that have already more or less paid for the full products, just so that they can better incorporate them in another, yet semi-limited manner.

I look forward to this so much. The truth is, that I used to feel that MAX was challenging, but the real challenge now is going to be executing my more attainable ideas as they come, and with less excuses.

I appreciate that Ableton are providing their general users the opportunities to both express themselves in ways not yet practical, as well as empower themselves will some further insights into DSP and Programming.

So cool. Wow.

what will be YOUR MAXIMUM budget for Max for Live ...???

What will be my limit price to buy MfL ??