Ableton Forum

i didnt watch the video i knew what it was and that was enough for me.

dysanfel wrote:The video is nothing compared to the hundreds, or even thousands of Iranians who were kidnapped in their sleep and executed by the SAVAK in the 60's and 70's when the US supported the Shah. Those Iranians were political dissedents fighting against a dictator as well. Same circumstances, different media attention.

This is not an excuse for the behavior, I am just pointing out that when a country does such things and are our friends it gets no mention in the media or in mainstream history. But when our enemies behave this way it is front page news.

So keep this all in perspective.

keep this in perspective by realizing that there were much different people in charge 30-40 years ago...

if they didnt start showing the vid's and twitter messages we could have easily just not have heard about the whole thing.


theres no perspective to be had except that Iranians need their say in the world and under Ahmadinejad that will never happen.

theres nothing to do to change the past...

hurlingdervish wrote:i didnt watch the video i knew what it was and that was enough for me.

isn't it mutual respect that you should watch what others post if you wish them to give you the time of day?

no clue what's going on, it's a minefield to navigate where you'd even begin to get proper news. some good points made here though. mikemc pointing out signs written in English for the mass appeal was eye opening.

hopefully it will be resolved peacefully and Iran can move towards improving its relations with the rest of the world.

Tone Deft wrote:

hurlingdervish wrote:i didnt watch the video i knew what it was and that was enough for me.

isn't it mutual respect that you should watch what others post if you wish them to give you the time of day?

i dont want to see a video of someone being killed

knowing it exists is enough

agreed, didn't realize that you were referring that far back.

hurlingdervish wrote:theres no perspective to be had except that Iranians need their say in the world and under Ahmadinejad that will never happen.
...

The Iranian president, regardless of who he might be, has absolutly no influence on the areas of Iran's social policies that you are alluding to. He is not a presedent in the same way that, for example, Obama is. The Ayatola and the supreme council are the people in Charge, the Iranian presedent has about as much power as the USA's state secretary or the UK's home secretery.

Homebelly wrote:

hurlingdervish wrote:theres no perspective to be had except that Iranians need their say in the world and under Ahmadinejad that will never happen.
...

The Iranian president, regardless of who he might be, has absolutly no influence on the areas of Iran's social policies that you are alluding to. He is not a presedent in the same way that, for example, Obama is. The Ayatola and the supreme council are the people in Charge, the Iranian presedent has about as much power as the USA's state secretary or the UK's home secretery.

well yes Ahmandinejad is basically the minion of the ayetollah

that is correct

hurlingdervish wrote:i didnt watch the video i knew what it was and that was enough for me.

dysanfel wrote:The video is nothing compared to the hundreds, or even thousands of Iranians who were kidnapped in their sleep and executed by the SAVAK in the 60's and 70's when the US supported the Shah. Those Iranians were political dissedents fighting against a dictator as well. Same circumstances, different media attention.

This is not an excuse for the behavior, I am just pointing out that when a country does such things and are our friends it gets no mention in the media or in mainstream history. But when our enemies behave this way it is front page news.

So keep this all in perspective.

keep this in perspective by realizing that there were much different people in charge 30-40 years ago...

if they didnt start showing the vid's and twitter messages we could have easily just not have heard about the whole thing.


theres no perspective to be had except that Iranians need their say in the world and under Ahmadinejad that will never happen.

theres nothing to do to change the past...

First off, Ahmadinejad is just the president of Iran. The real power lies in the 12 member Council of Guardians.

Secondly, It maybe easy for you to forget the West's destruction of democracy in Iran, but it is much more difficult for Iranians to forget. Your right though, they are much different people since a 30+ years under a brutal dictator (the Shah) who the US sold nuclear technology too, sold F-14 Tomcats too, and help organize the SAVAK that tortured and murdered dissidents. The Islamic fundamentalist government since 1979 was an extreme reaction to a extreme government put in place by the west. The thing I find most interesting is that although they naturally mistrust the west due the interference in their governments, they love the west's culture.

I believe we need to let Iran's government run its course. The Persians are some of the most intelligent and resourceful people on the planet! Iran will be a friendly pro-western state eventually, but on THEIR terms - not ours. Forcing Iran to conform to our will is what got us into this problem to begin with.

I'm following it..

Kind of at a loss for how to help though, or even what's really going on

The one thing I know for sure is, that a lot of innocent people are having a really rough time over there right now

Lucid wrote:I'm following it..

Kind of at a loss for how to help though, or even what's really going on

And the western media will do its best keep it that way. With all the coverage is it amazing how little real information on Iran is actually produced. You have to really dig and do your homework to even understand how their government is organized, let alone be able to make an informed opinion on what is going on. Iran's political history since WW2 is a fascinating story of brutality, intrigue, heartbreak, and betrayal.

I urge everyone to read Steven Kinzer's "All the Shahs Men". Its a great primer.