Depeche Mode: so macs reliable enough to use in stadiums...?

[SubFunk]

Great source... as in: urban myth Gimme facts!

feel free to e-mail: asa[at]asa-elektronik[dot]de

and arange a meeting with 'the myth'

On the one hand, there are servo designs based on coils and only utilize the mechanical servo feedback in relation to the input signal to drive the coil with less distortion and on the other hand the real servo drivers, where the servo motor power drives the bass - but neither of them are illegal - or can you point me to a law?

In germany there's even no law yet imho that handles sound volume in clubs at all, not to mention trying to forbid a particular loudspeaker design in general.

no, i have to admit, not to the written law... but there are maximum levels for clubs, those are based on 'health laws' and issues of 'noise pollution'
for example, the 60 year birthday of the BRD in front of the brandenburg gate... has been monitored from the health department (that usually takes place also in concert venues, especially in germany without you even nothing unless it's to late and you get a fine or are closed down)
and we where not allowed to run over 70db, which was measured at a point about 200m behind the main stage.

Do you know the rotary subwoofers? Generating bass by tilting the blades of a rotating fan, much like a helicopter. You can reach below 1HZ with serious level using those.

http://www.rotarywoofer.com/

and the motor basses, i was referring to... are deadly, that is why they are not built and used anymore... not commercially, however.
similar 'driver designs' motors instead of coils as i said... do exist and also the rotary woofers are way beyond of the power (not frequency, they can go down only to max 4-6hz but with way, way higher sound pressure levels then anything else, therefor serious health damaging / deadly, they simply tear your guts and body apart) the initial / original motor basses can produce...

My dj/producer mate from NRW flew in for a bussiness meeting and we had a drinking meeting afterwards.

Cheers,
Dom

lame, you could have had a beer at the ALUGB.

[SubFunk]

Edit:

we usually get told at events, indoor or outdoor db limits via a representative from the german health department, england is pretty tight in that respect as well.

[dom]

Great source... as in: urban myth :) Gimme facts!

feel free to e-mail: asa[at]asa-elektronik[dot]de

and arange a meeting with 'the myth' :)

I only need a link :)

On the one hand, there are servo designs based on coils and only utilize the mechanical servo feedback in relation to the input signal to drive the coil with less distortion and on the other hand the real servo drivers, where the servo motor power drives the bass - but neither of them are illegal - or can you point me to a law?

In germany there's even no law yet imho that handles sound volume in clubs at all, not to mention trying to forbid a particular loudspeaker design in general.

no, i have to admit, not to the written law... but there are maximum levels for clubs, those are based on 'health laws' and issues of 'noise pollution'
for example, the 60 year birthday of the BRD in front of the brandenburg gate... has been monitored from the health department (that usually takes place also in concert venues, especially in germany without you even nothing unless it's to late and you get a fine or are closed down)
and we where not allowed to run over 70db, which was measured at a point about 200m behind the main stage.

Nope, you're mixing topics. As i said, there are no laws regarding the volumes IN clubs.
There are laws handling issues of sound leaking outside and open air events, disturbing neigbours etc. (Stichwort Lärmbelästigung)
And normally not the health departement (they can't close your venue because of volume issues) comes with their db-meters but the Ordnungsamt.

Do you know the rotary subwoofers? Generating bass by tilting the blades of a rotating fan, much like a helicopter. You can reach below 1HZ with serious level using those.

http://www.rotarywoofer.com/

and the motor basses, i was referring to... are deadly, that is why they are not built and used anymore... not commercially, however.
similar 'driver designs' motors instead of coils as i said... do exist and also the rotary woofers are way beyond of the power (not frequency, they can go down only to max 4-6hz but with way, way higher sound pressure levels then anything else, therefor serious health damaging / deadly, they simply tear your guts and body apart) the initial / original motor basses can produce...

No, they can really go down to 1HZ and below with the right enclosure.
And you can't kill people using a motor subwoofer. It is not possible to generate soundwaves with more than 194db in earth's athomsphere.
In order to achieve higher levels you need a short shockwave like an explosion.
Or you take your subwoofer under water instead of using it with air :)
The germans experimented in WWII with soundweapons, based on gas explosions and controlling them with a big parabolic dish.
It was crap as sound does not travel far enough without losing too much energy.

My dj/producer mate from NRW flew in for a bussiness meeting and we had a drinking meeting afterwards.

Cheers,
Dom

lame, you could have had a beer at the ALUGB.

Nah, i needed some free time!
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 85#p995785

Cheers,
Dom

[dom]

Edit:

we usually get told at events, indoor or outdoor db limits via a representative from the german health department, england is pretty tight in that respect as well.

They can only act if sound exceeds the norm levels outside for neighbours but not inside your venue.
You might have to hand out ear protection to your employees - there are work laws regarding volume levels, too, but not for your punters :)

Cheers,
Dom

[SubFunk]

No, no link you can e-mail!

i trust that person more than ANY other source, what you trust is ypur decision.

you do can kill, seriously health damage people with sound, developing a 'weapon' is something else, then a venue for example where you have a motor bass pushing out levels at frequencies that do destroy your funtctionality of organs such as the liver and kidneys and heart thru heavy vibrations...

and it is often not just the 'ordnungsamt' checking the issue of noise polution, but also people from the health department, at least on all the sound jobs i did in germany over the last year... (only time they did not came was for a job in portugal)

maybe they want to establish a law soon? That they always appear now...

about the motorbass again, certain types (the ones originally designed for 'science purposes' thos types that are health and environment damaging are not commercially aviable anymore (but used be) because of it.

sorce: ASA, if you want to believe wikipedia or other sources please feel free to do so!

And by the way i also know about physic db restrictians.
and already 160db of 6-12hz you do not resist in a venue without damage or even death.

[SubFunk]

besides, what do we actually discuss here?

we where talking about the 'health issue' having a 137 db monitoring 1m from your back.

i said it's less the low then the high frequencies that are a damaging issue... except you use a motor bass (there i probably made a mistake, cause the actual design of using a motor instead of a coil still exists, but i was referring to the 'original designs' that are not allowed and manufactured anymore for commercial use), a motor bass in that form is health damaging and can lead to death, because of organs that are destroyed and start to malfunction and bones, joints etc are heavily affected if you are under the influence of that kind of power in ultra low frequencies over a certain period of time... (a constructed soundweapon is obviously something else...)

someone asks what a motor bass is and you and me explained...

so where is the problem?

i also said there are limits given, i don't have a link, because i don't actually care that much about it, i always try to go over given limits, law or not law, but in all events i did over the last year in germany every time both the ordnungsamt because of noise pollution (and we do know each other, so why do you possibly think i can't tell the difference?, really weird) and the health department because of, well health issues and sound levels have been there measuring and restricting levels. i also had that a lot 6 years ago when i lived and worked in england.

if you have a problem with me trusting ASA a 100%. fair enough... i don't need to explain, nor justify or anything towards myself because of that (i know this person, his knowledge, work, designs, developments, respect status, etc.), e-mail him i also can PM you his phone number, meet him and i guarantee you you will understand within a few minutes of conversation with him, why i trust him, without any doubt.

[outershpongolia]

I've definitely pretty much passed out, at concerts from the bass. Both were at Umphrey's Mcgee concerts, and both times I was close to the stage and off to either side where the speakers would be. It just hits a certain frequency or something and I start to feel dizzy and I have to sit down or get on a knee to avoid falling down. Shit was nuts I thought I was going to die. The funny thing is that they weren't necessarily louder parts of the concert, and fatigue and dancing all night definitely contributed to it.

[SubFunk]

^^^ that is a 'starting point' i have seen many cases of people throwing up from to much bass... that is luckily a protection built into us...

but yeah, frequencies and for that matter all of them do have an effect on us (including all the ones we can't hear)... especially if they are from such enormous amplitudes and power levels over time...

i had it ones bad myself, in prague is a club called 'the cross' amazing venue completely designed with kinetik art, however they have a relatively small main room and a killer and way to oversized meyer soundsystem... and they play mainly, DnB, Breaks, dubstep... etc.
i was there at a dubstep night and the bass was so strong that it was physically hurting, the whole body was shakin' to a level of utter uncomfort and i had to leave the room, i started not to be able to breathe properly anymore because my lung / breast part felt squashed together from the monster bass.

still a very wicked club, thou...

[dom]

i said it's less the low then the high frequencies that are a damaging issue... except you use a motor bass (there i probably made a mistake, cause the actual design of using a motor instead of a coil still exists, but i was referring to the 'original designs' that are not allowed and manufactured anymore for commercial use), a motor bass in that form is health damaging and can lead to death, because of organs that are destroyed and start to malfunction and bones, joints etc are heavily affected if you are under the influence of that kind of power in ultra low frequencies over a certain period of time... (a constructed soundweapon is obviously something else...)

someone asks what a motor bass is and you and me explained...

so where is the problem?

No problem, just me trying to stop false information to be spread.
Just facts:

- There's nothing like a forbidden loudspeaker design
- You can't kill people with soundwaves of some frequency due to physics: you just can't build up the pressure you would need (aound 198db afaik) to destroy internal organs other than by a single shockwave.
- There are no volume regulations for the audience of your venue in germany (only for employees, the neighbours etc.) - health care guys are running around because there a suggested DIN norm, but no law and they can't restrict you.
- "The brown note" also does not exist :)

BTW: Whatcha doing tomorrow?

Cheers,
Dom

[SubFunk]

i said it's less the low then the high frequencies that are a damaging issue... except you use a motor bass (there i probably made a mistake, cause the actual design of using a motor instead of a coil still exists, but i was referring to the 'original designs' that are not allowed and manufactured anymore for commercial use), a motor bass in that form is health damaging and can lead to death, because of organs that are destroyed and start to malfunction and bones, joints etc are heavily affected if you are under the influence of that kind of power in ultra low frequencies over a certain period of time... (a constructed soundweapon is obviously something else...)

someone asks what a motor bass is and you and me explained...

so where is the problem?

No problem, just me trying to stop false information to be spread.
Just facts:

- There's nothing like a forbidden loudspeaker design Yes there is: the motor speakers originally designed for testing helicopter constructions, ok probaly not the design is forbidden, but the commercial use, because of health issues is forbidden, you simply don't get them anymore...
- You can't kill people with soundwaves of some frequency due to physics: you just can't build up the pressure you would need (aound 198db afaik) to destroy internal organs other than by a single shockwave. yes, you can, lets just stand for 20 minutes in front of a speaker system (we said the monitor situation prodigy uses with let's say 160db - 170db and frequencies around 6hz-30hz and see how you feel! (and then speak again about theory)
- There are no volume regulations for the audience of your venue in germany (only for employees, the neighbours etc.) - health care guys are running around because there a suggested DIN norm, but no law and they can't restrict you. this i possible not being a 'fixed law', i don't know, but they do that at least in germany and england: 'they can't restrict you' under circumstances
- "The brown note" also does not exist i did not claimed that.

BTW: Whatcha doing tomorrow?

probaly nothing much, i was yesterday at ALUGB until the bitter end and go tonight to the netaudio festival... a friend from slovakia is playing who runs a label... i'll give you a call later.

Cheers,
Dom

[SubFunk]

we do have a problem, that a system that manages 160db - 170db at those frequencies does not really exist commercially anymore... it's simply not around on the market or hardly, because of problems in commercial use, health wise and also because it can /does cause damage to the environment in general... so i can't really make you experience the damage that can cause it...

but i would love to, not because i don't like you, but just to have the experience... i mean you where standing in front of liams system and 'only' triggered a 808 and you know the physical experience you had, imagine this with way lower Frequencies and way more power over a period of time...
like all night long in a club, e.g. (and 30-40 db on top of the 137 he uses is manageable [technically] and a hell lot more, it's way more then a starting jumbo jet, jeez and that for longer periods, urgh, i did not said you fall over drop dead from it... you want, it is not a weapon, but it can cause damage (first and most affected are the inner organs such as the liver, kidneys and lungs, heart... ) to your health which can lead to death... yes! absolutely!)

i really like to give that to you, if you not would probably leave with throwing up or collapsing before any further damage and danger to your health.

[dom]

- There's nothing like a forbidden loudspeaker design Yes there is: the motor speakers originally designed for testing helicopter constructions, ok probaly not the design is forbidden, but the commercial use, because of health issues is forbidden, you simply don't get them anymore...

There's just no such law and therefore they're not forbidden. Easy, huh? :)

- You can't kill people with soundwaves of some frequency due to physics: you just can't build up the pressure you would need (aound 198db afaik) to destroy internal organs other than by a single shockwave. yes, you can, lets just stand for 20 minutes in front of a speaker system (we said the monitor situation prodigy uses with let's say 160db - 170db and frequencies around 6hz-30hz and see how you feel! (and then speak again about theory)

Not speaking about theory, it all has been done - in short: i'll feel like shit, will be completely deaf - but survive, just as i said!

137 HUMAN BODY VIBRATION IS STRONG -REF.1.1983
137-140 HUMAN EAR ALL FREQUENCIES ARE PAINFUL -REF.1.1983
140 EXTREMELY DAMAGING TO HEARING NO MATTER HOW SHORT THE TIME EXPOSURE
140 HUMAN THROAT AND VOCAL CORD VIBRATION BEGINS -REF.1.1983
141 HUMAN BODY BEGINS TO FEEL NASUEA AFTER A FEW MINUTES -REF.1.1983
142 HUMAN BODY CHESTPOUNDING IS INTENCE -REF.1.1983
142 (P) INSIDE A CAR WITH TWO PRO 18 INCH WOOFERS AND 300 WATTS EACH -REF.1.1983
143 HUMAN BODY FEELS AS IF SOMEONE JUST FOOTBALL TACKLED YOUR CHEST -REF.1.1983
144 HUMAN NOSE ITCHES -REF.1.1983
145 HUMAN VISION BEGINS TO VIBRATE MAKING IT SLIGHTLY BLURRY, 1-3 DEGREES -REF.1.1983
145-136 (P)“COMPETITION” CAR STEREO, SIXTEEN 12 OR EIGHT 15, OR FOUR 18 SPEAKERS -REF.1.1983
147 (N)FORMULA 1 RACE CAR, 700 HORSEPOWER, CHESTPOUNDING AND SUCTION FORCE ON CALM QUIET
MORNINGS CAN CLEARLY BE HEARD 6 MILES AWAY.-REF.1.1991
148 HUMAN VIBRATION VERY UNCOMFORTABLE AND SLIGHTLY PAINFUL -REF.1.1986
149 HUMAN LUNGS AND BREATHING BEGINS VIBRATING TO THE SOUND -REF.1.1986
150 (N)ROCK CONCERT “THE WHO” TWO 10 STORY STACKS = 144 DOUBLE REFRIDGERATOR SIZED SPEAKERS, ACTUAL LEVEL REACHED 120 DB AT A DISTANCE OF 32 METERS FOR THIS NORMALIZED READING OF 150 DB.CONTINOUS LEVEL 114-118db (P) AT 32 METERS -REF.1.1982
150 ROCK CONCERT SPEAKER AT 1600 WATTS ON THE ACTUAL VIBRATING SURFACE -REF.1.1991
150 HUMAN SENSATION OF BEING COMPRESSED AS IF UNDERWATER IS OVERWHELMING -REF.1.1983
150 HUMAN SOUND EXPERIMENTS DOWN TO 1 TO 2 HERTZ - REF.13.
152 HUMAN VIBRATION IS PAINUL AND ALSO FELT IN ALL JOINTS -REF.1.1983
153 HUMAN THROAT IS VIBRATING SO HARD IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SWALLOW -REF.1.1983
154 TOY BALLOON POPPING, DEPENDS ON TYPE AND HOW LARGE AND HARD TO INFLATE -REF.1.1986
155 HUMAN BODY COMPRESSION AND EXPANSION TO VIBRATION IS TO THE “CORE” -REF.1.1983
155 HUMAN COOLING EFFECT IS HIGH, AS A GUESS 10 TO 25 DEGREES FARENHEIT? -REF.1.1983
156 (P)IN A MINI-VAN WITH TWENTY 12” WOOFERS AND 19,000 WATTS OF AMPLIFIER POWER.
EACH SPEAKERS IS DISPLACING (PUMPING BACK AND FORTH ) 0.75 INCHES
IF LONG HAIR WOMEN SIT IN IT, HER HAIR WILL FLY OUT OF WINDOW WITH BASS
WINDSHIELD WIPERS FLY OFF VEHICLE 1/2 TO 2 INCHES, DOOR AND FRONT
WINDSHIELD FLEXION MAY BE UP TO +-2 INCHES OR 4 INCHES PEAK TO PEAK
EVEN WITH EARPLUGS (-30 DB) AND HEADMUFFS (-24 DB) = -54 DB IT’S STILL LOUD -REF.1.1997
156.498(P) = 1 CENTIMETER MERCURY = 0.01 METERS MERCURY
158 HUMAN BODY VIBRATION IS VIOLENT, NAUSEA BECOMES MORE INTENCE -REF.1.1983
160 (P)FLASHLIGHTS EXHIBIT ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSING-EMP (DIMMING DURING SOUND) -REF.1.1983
162 U.S. FESTIVAL ROCK CONCERT 1983. 10 SEPARATE STACKS, AMPS = 400,000 WATTS (N) -REF.1.1983,-REF.3.
163-153 (N) N.H.R.A. DRAGSTERS- 5000 TO 7000 HORSEPOWER, LIQUID NITROGLYCERIN FUEL,
EARTHSHAKING AT 50 FEET, HUMANS FIND IT HARD TO SEE, AND BREATHE 140db(P) -REF.1.1987
163 (P)GLASSBREAKING LEVEL, MINIMUM, IT IS VERY HARD TO BREAK GLASS WINDOWS.
MANY STORIES COME FROM BREAKING GLASS BUT IT IS HIGHLY VARIABLE: IT IS
EASIER TO BREAK IF THE WINDOW ALREADY HAS A CRACK, IS VERY LARGE OR
OLD AND BRITTLE AND NOT CAR SAFETY GLASS WHICH CAN FLEX MASSIVELY
BEFORE BREAKING. AN OPERA SINGER AT 110 DB MAY BREAK A WINEGLASS BUT IT IS AN
EXAMPLE OF FREQUENCY RESONANCE, AND NOT HIGH SOUND DB LEVEL -REF.1.1987
163 (N)OCEAN WHALE REFERENCE 2 EXP-5 NEWTONS PER SQUARE METER
164 (P)INTERNAL SOUND PRESSURE OF A LARGE JET AIRPLANE TURBINE MOTOR -REF.1.1993
164.568(P) = 1 INCH MERCURY PRESSURE
165-145 (NP) THE COMMON TYPE OF FIREWORKS AT PROFESSIONAL PYROTECHNIC SHOWS -REF.1.1988
165 (N)JET AIRPLANE, BOEING 727-15,000 LBS OF THRUST, DEPENDS ON THE TAKEOFF -REF.1.1982
165(P) MOTOR DRIVEN PISTON HEADPHONES -REF.16.
166 AIR PARTICLE VELOCITY IS 10 METERS PER SECOND OR ABOUT 20 MILES PER HOUR
170.75 PRESSURE (P) = 1 P.S.I. = 1 POUND PER SQUARE INCH MOST SOUND READINGS
HIGHER THAN THIS REFER TO P.S.I. INSTEAD OF DB. BUILDINGS AND HOUSES
HAVE APPROXIMATELY A 50 % CHANCE OF SURVIVAL REF.2.
171-150 (P)WORLDS LOUDEST CAR STEREOS, UP TO 80 SPEAKERS,32 CAR BATTERYS,
100,000 WATTS, 125-138 (N)

[...]
183 (P) = 6 P.S.I. TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF ALL STRUCTURES, PARTICLE VELOCITY
(BLAST WIND) IS 180 MILES PER HOUR. 0.9 MILES FROM HIROSHIMA ATOMIC BOMB
AND 3.3 MILES FROM 1MEGATON NUCLEAR BOMB, LESS 0.1 % OBJECT SURVIVAL -REF.2.
[...]
195-190 (P) HUMAN EARDRUMS RUPTURE 50 % OF TIME -REF.2.
195.2(P) 1 TON T.N.T. AT 60 FEET -REF.4.
200.59 (NP) 63.24 POUNDS OF T.N.T., RIECHTER SCALE 1
202-198 (P) HUMAN DEATH FROM SOUND (SHOCK) WAVE ALONE. DEATH FROM: SCHRAPNEL AT ANY LEVEL ABOVE 165 DB IS LIKELY AND BEING THROWN (10 FEET PER SECOND) ABOVE 180 DB -REF.2.

As you can see: the lethal levels can't be reached by frequencies but only by shockwaves.

- There are no volume regulations for the audience of your venue in germany (only for employees, the neighbours etc.) - health care guys are running around because there a suggested DIN norm, but no law and they can't restrict you. this i possible not being a 'fixed law', i don't know, but they do that at least in germany and england: 'they can't restrict you' under circumstances

You mean "they can restrict you", right?
And yes, as i said, because of your surroundings and noise pollution - but not because of sound levels for the audience inside of your club.

- "The brown note" also does not exist :) i did not claimed that.

But i totally want it to be true :))


BTW: Whatcha doing tomorrow?

probaly nothing much, i was yesterday at ALUGB until the bitter end and go tonight to the netaudio festival... a friend from slovakia is playing who runs a label... i'll give you a call later.

Make it so!

Cheers,
Dom

[SubFunk]

just one quick article i grabed of the net.

the article claims that certain information does not come to the surface, well ASA said the same, but has way more inside then many others
and he is not working for any government!

We have spoken so far about psycho-physiological effects of sound as a weapon – but what about the purely physical effects? Going back to our Walls of Jericho scenario, the phenomenon of resonance can potentially be amplified to cause destruction. The opera singer, Caruso, was able to shatter wine glasses with a single note sung at the sympathetic frequency of the glass. In theory the same phenomenon could be created synthetically. In the early 1970's, acoustic engineer Vladimir Gavreau was experimenting with infrasound weaponry. Now the stuff of infrasound legend, Gavreau was responsible for the construction of a giant 6ft whistle, powered by compressed air, which reputedly scrambled the inner organs of it's unfortunate operator (a phenomenon known as 'cavitation', where the internal physiology was fatally resonated). Distraught, Gavreau ceased his experiments, but left behind plans and models for highly sophisticated, directional sound cannons, which were apparently seized by the French authorities. In a recent conference with Dr Guy Peter Manners, Professor of Cymatics (a form of sonic therapy), I happened to enquire about his knowledge of Gavreau. It appears that what I had previously assumed was legend was almost certainly true. Although Manners was reluctant to divulge details, he informed me of certain facts which cannot be repeated here as they would breach the conditions of the Official Secrets Act. Manners also informed me of experiments which he had first hand experience of in wartime Germany, where sonic weapons were being developed under a highly classified strategy initiated and financed by Hitler's government. Once again, frustratingly, I cannot release such information for at least two more years, but a separate source reveals the fact that the Germans were pioneering a sound-based weapon known as the 'Luftkanone', developed at Talstation Lofer. This was a parabolic device which, although untested on humans, was apparently... 'capable of killing a man with sound pressure in about 30-40 seconds. At greater ranges, although not lethal it would be able to disable a man for an appreciable length of time. Vision would be affected, and low-level exposure would cause point sources of light to appear as lines.

'

source: http://www.spannered.org/features/806/

you will probably find a lot of articles that claim the opposite...

i trust ASA plus i experienced already 'health issues' myself, just as i said in 'the cross' for example... and that was way under 160db-170db and only frequencies not below probably 50-60hz.

[SubFunk]

- There's nothing like a forbidden loudspeaker design Yes there is: the motor speakers originally designed for testing helicopter constructions, ok probaly not the design is forbidden, but the commercial use, because of health issues is forbidden, you simply don't get them anymore...

There's just no such law and therefore they're not forbidden. Easy, huh?

then please get me one... hire or buy, easy huh?

and not just a motor bass principle design, the original US army motor bass construction, model, speaker however you want to call it that is used to test helicopter rotaries...

[dom]

just one quick article i grabed of the net.

the article claims that certain information does not come to the surface, well ASA said the same, but has way more inside then many others
and he is not working for any government!

We have spoken so far about psycho-physiological effects of sound as a weapon – but what about the purely physical effects? Going back to our Walls of Jericho scenario, the phenomenon of resonance can potentially be amplified to cause destruction. The opera singer, Caruso, was able to shatter wine glasses with a single note sung at the sympathetic frequency of the glass. In theory the same phenomenon could be created synthetically. In the early 1970's, acoustic engineer Vladimir Gavreau was experimenting with infrasound weaponry. Now the stuff of infrasound legend, Gavreau was responsible for the construction of a giant 6ft whistle, powered by compressed air, which reputedly scrambled the inner organs of it's unfortunate operator (a phenomenon known as 'cavitation', where the internal physiology was fatally resonated). Distraught, Gavreau ceased his experiments, but left behind plans and models for highly sophisticated, directional sound cannons, which were apparently seized by the French authorities. In a recent conference with Dr Guy Peter Manners, Professor of Cymatics (a form of sonic therapy), I happened to enquire about his knowledge of Gavreau. It appears that what I had previously assumed was legend was almost certainly true. Although Manners was reluctant to divulge details, he informed me of certain facts which cannot be repeated here as they would breach the conditions of the Official Secrets Act. Manners also informed me of experiments which he had first hand experience of in wartime Germany, where sonic weapons were being developed under a highly classified strategy initiated and financed by Hitler's government. Once again, frustratingly, I cannot release such information for at least two more years, but a separate source reveals the fact that the Germans were pioneering a sound-based weapon known as the 'Luftkanone', developed at Talstation Lofer. This was a parabolic device which, although untested on humans, was apparently... 'capable of killing a man with sound pressure in about 30-40 seconds. At greater ranges, although not lethal it would be able to disable a man for an appreciable length of time. Vision would be affected, and low-level exposure would cause point sources of light to appear as lines.

'

source: http://www.spannered.org/features/806/

you will probably find a lot of articles that claim the opposite...

i trust ASA plus i experienced already 'health issues' myself, just as i said in 'the cross' for example... and that was way under 160db-170db and only frequencies not below probably 50-60hz.

... and a legend, an urban myth, just as Caruso and the glass - his wife stated after his death that it was a lie.
But at least this is a legend that works in principle and was proven, because it has been done: 556HZ at 105db sung by a human.
It took many attempts but it works.

Cheers,
Dom