Villalobos hating on Ableton

[silveriofunk]

1) Make great music
2) Fuss over the fine details of the listening experience
3) Profit....


Step 2 is optional.

+1

[blackboab]

No idea what that has to do with this thread, but that is the funniest thing I've seen all day ... I say that as a Scotsman

[H20nly]

1) Make great music
2) Fuss over the fine details of the listening experience
3) Profit....


Step 2 is optional.

+1

+2*

*note: this is more of a goal than an easy step. some of the best music I've heard came from the underground and hardly made shit profit wise.
Profit is relative to how much time, sweat, tears and soul was put in it.

[ChiDJ]

Well, I can recognize the "LIVE" sound in many cases and it's because of it's trademark lack of funk. When I first heard Sasha perform years ago with his Raven controller. It was dismally straight. No funk, no groove. I pointed this out to many of my friends who couldn't hear what I was hearing. The program just made things too straight, too quantized.

To be clear, I'm not hating on LIVE. I use it in all my productions. I'm also not saying what I hear is obvious. (To me it is). I just think, the average bedroom producer doesn't have an ear for the funk so they don't know it's missing.

Villalobos definitely does. So do I. As well as a lot of really good producers obviously do. LIVE can be funky and I've heard a lot of awesome fully funky productions made in LIVE. It's just that a lot of the shit coming out is "amateur hour" and it's mechanically uninspired drivel.

my .02

Tod

[kb420]

Well, I can recognize the "LIVE" sound in many cases and it's because of it's trademark lack of funk. When I first heard Sasha perform years ago with his Raven controller. It was dismally straight. No funk, no groove. I pointed this out to many of my friends who couldn't hear what I was hearing. The program just made things too straight, too quantized.

To be clear, I'm not hating on LIVE. I use it in all my productions. I'm also not saying what I hear is obvious. (To me it is). I just think, the average bedroom producer doesn't have an ear for the funk so they don't know it's missing.

Villalobos definitely does. So do I. As well as a lot of really good producers obviously do. LIVE can be funky and I've heard a lot of awesome fully funky productions made in LIVE. It's just that a lot of the shit coming out is "amateur hour" and it's mechanically uninspired drivel.

my .02

Tod

You'd think that it would be hard to contradict something you just said, but he pulled it off nicely!!!

Live is as funky as you want it to be. You get out what you put in!!!!

[H20nly]

feature request for Live 9: add funk



better be careful or the Abes will bust ass in your boxed version before they mail it to you...

[rasputin]

My first thought was: hey, Villalobos has been dead 50 years.

But it's just some big deal electronic producer.

We'll see if people are talking about his music 50 years after his death.

Music as a profession is at least 50% abut self-promotion. It's a simple truth. Getting (real or electronic) ink means your name is "out there" more than your competitors. So say outrageous, opinionated or just stupid things. A famous PR saying is, "There is no such thing as bad publicity. The only bad thing is no publicity."

Most of the best music I've heard in the last several years has been found from ferretting out from obscure corners of the net from composers/producers who have no interest in fame or fortune, just making good music.

[necho]

Well, I can recognize the "LIVE" sound in many cases and it's because of it's trademark lack of funk. When I first heard Sasha perform years ago with his Raven controller. It was dismally straight. No funk, no groove. I pointed this out to many of my friends who couldn't hear what I was hearing. The program just made things too straight, too quantized.

To be clear, I'm not hating on LIVE. I use it in all my productions. I'm also not saying what I hear is obvious. (To me it is). I just think, the average bedroom producer doesn't have an ear for the funk so they don't know it's missing.

Villalobos definitely does. So do I. As well as a lot of really good producers obviously do. LIVE can be funky and I've heard a lot of awesome fully funky productions made in LIVE. It's just that a lot of the shit coming out is "amateur hour" and it's mechanically uninspired drivel.

my .02

Tod

I really don't understand this at all.

It lacks funk and it doesn't lack funk?

I produce in a bedroom - does that mean I don't have funky ears?

Do you mean that the user interface encourages mechanical, over-quantized beat production? If that's what you mean, then you have a point... but that's got nothing to do with the audio engine... which I what I think this Villalobos bloke is on about...


My ears are so damn good, when I listen to anything digital, I don't hear music... I just hear 01110001010001111101010011010100101000111110101010.... etc....

[Tone Deft]

I think he's referring to stuff like warp, quantize, groove, tools that can suck the life out of music. powerful tools in the wrong hands (I'm looking at you Kanye.)

[H20nly]

(I'm looking at you Kanye.)

I bet he's spending a lot of time looking at himself lately too. His fans (or former fans) aren't. He's had to cancel a large portion of his US tour dates since his little stunt at the award show...

[leedsquietman]

Tracks produced in other DAWS also suffer from being overly quantized with a lack of creative imagination.

This is not unique to Live - I can make pasteurized 4 on the floor beats with no kind of human feel whatsoever just as easily in Cubase, Logic, Sonar, Protools etc. The sad thing is that these tracks are the ones which often get you gigs and the airplay, stuff which is a bit left of field is often disregarded or not played. Heck, since the advent of MIDI this has been a bone of contention, I remember these arguments dating back pre Atari ST when sequencers like Roland MC-50s and Yamaha QY sequencers were around.

The new groove functions in Live 8 give some license to move the beat off totally straight, but a lot of people can do themselves a favour and not quantize everything to 1/8 or even 1/16th of a note on EVERYTHING.

There are times when this is appropriate but you don't need to do it on every track. The over use of the same beats and samples is another bone of contention. When you're warping things like synths or guitars, you don't have to warp absolutely every note straight on the downbeat, if some are just a few milliseconds out, leave some like that. (obviously if it's way off and causing an unwanted distraction that's different).

[kb420]

Tracks produced in other DAWS also suffer from being overly quantized with a lack of creative imagination.

This is not unique to Live - I can make pasteurized 4 on the floor beats with no kind of human feel whatsoever just as easily in Cubase, Logic, Sonar, Protools etc. The sad thing is that these tracks are the ones which often get you gigs and the airplay, stuff which is a bit left of field is often disregarded or not played. Heck, since the advent of MIDI this has been a bone of contention, I remember these arguments dating back pre Atari ST when sequencers like Roland MC-50s and Yamaha QY sequencers were around.

The new groove functions in Live 8 give some license to move the beat off totally straight, but a lot of people can do themselves a favour and not quantize everything to 1/8 or even 1/16th of a note on EVERYTHING.

There are times when this is appropriate but you don't need to do it on every track. The over use of the same beats and samples is another bone of contention. When you're warping things like synths or guitars, you don't have to warp absolutely every note straight on the downbeat, if some are just a few milliseconds out, leave some like that. (obviously if it's way off and causing an unwanted distraction that's different).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCKC-JdD ... re=related

[ChiDJ]

I think he's referring to stuff like warp, quantize, groove, tools that can suck the life out of music. powerful tools in the wrong hands (I'm looking at you Kanye.)

Exactly. Thanks for clarifying Tone.

[3phase]

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1128

do you think what he says is true or is it that it's the tool of choice for so many bad minimal techno producers trying to bite his sound?

Yes,

its absolutly true.

however very simplified statement... ableton sounds worse... plug ins sound worse... daw internal ixing sounds worse...

so having all 3 together what you have in many cheapo techno productions theese days will result in that effect... especially on big systems...it really chews your eras off... theese 8khz killer glassy hard resonance on everything..outch...

however..doing it with logic and only plugs is still hard.. ricardo like most others in the pro circuit use analog mixdowns and mastering techniques at various points during a production..its never the daw alone.. they use it like a tape machine..

and a tape machine can´t fuck the sound as much as a warping elastic audio jitter monster with dynamic gainstructure, as ableton live, can do...

[H20nly]

^ you don't actually like Ableton Live do you?