Is Abletons Business Model Broken?

[petit nuage]

hi ! oualala..

it is an intersting and complex debate here . ..there is things to improve or to implement IMO.. im thinking about :

off thread but .. convolution thing a bit like nebula from acusticaudio ,

better editing functions : possibility to PRINT fx/automation fx in audio clips , directly without freezing all the track ..is very ergonomic when you have lot of eq's clean up to do on lot of clips= HUGE TIME SAVER for sound design ,scoring etc ..),

a better transpose/pitch in audio clip (im thinking about how great N.I's battery,reaktor etc..pitch sounds ..)

new fx like a great PHASE vocoder for sound design , a true granular instrument (simpler improvements) ..and lot of other cool things ..


in my view there is possibilities for at least : live 10/11 but maybe not an upgrade by year ..

but i hope that for live 9..the upgrade price will be cheaper or justified by the new features..otherwise i dont know if i will upgrade it

i find steinberg by exple more generous for the features when they upgrade cubase ..

because ..to implement basic editing features (which exists during long time in other daw..like printing fx in audio instantly..), drop by drop ,its not a good and serious thing i think and it may tire some people like LONG TIME USER who are faithful ...the TRUST is the major link between ableton and its community so ..warning about it ..


for me .. user since the live 2 (m-audio version with sound card )/live 4 , .. just the possibility to print fx in a clip directly without freezing (such a basic thing pfff ) ..will be a nice present for me and the community to ease my pain .. and it will be nice for live 8.5 !!


but after a complete audio implemented 's features version .héhé..i think that ableton will go to movie thing...classical like pro tools BUT..


imagine the session view for triggering videos ,putting fx on them in sync with sounds plus for some guys midi can trigger lights during shows ..it opens lot of options ..


to make crazy video montage using the two screen like the audio : session for creativity ,arrangement for editing


plus ableton online shop could sell video plugs ..as audio plugs

also it will be use to make videos in studio but in live too just like audio ..

it will open new far horizons even in the video world ..so they will take new customers from video world maybe..


maybe for their business ..ableton should have fresh little new things time to time to sell.. not just big events like upgrade or partnership..like a store on line with the possibility to buy at 10/20 euros a plug audio/midi/ video..i dont know .. which will be released by exple one time per month ..to create some frequent event for the community .. i hope they will dont lose money with max for live because of the existence of max,super collider ,pure data ,reaktor ,tassman etc..


because when you have spending time and time on reaktor by exple..and youre not new in the audio world ..maybe you already own a soft like that ..and (my case ) you dont want to spend more time to study a complex soft like that which is moore open and then more complex ..


and .. at a moment you want to find the time to make music before dying héhé because ..upgrades + new softs + freeware + thing like max or reaktor (you could spend you time ,life to explore héhé ).. but the free time its hard to find ..and i dont want to spend my life to learn every day new thing but to make music héhé but its my opinion ..and surely my personnal problem héhé ..



and the music business keep us in a compulsive mode of reaction


for the business ..when i look to n.i there is often big or little events but events ..upgrades ,new vstis , sound card , controller , kore thing , new product like maschine , for reaktor user new ensembles every week if not every day , partnership with abbey road by exple will be promising because the mix between the ultramodern and soft with n.i and more hardware maybe.. and vintage with abbey road .. etc..


why ableton dont look at steinberg and their mr 816 x sound interface which is fight with orpheus prism concerning audio quality..but not the same price .. héhé


i think the mix hardware/soft will be a part of the future .. an ableton audio interface but as good as steinberg mr 816 x wiil be nice but steinberg is own by huge compagny :..thats the problem..yamaha , apple ,avid ,roland ..big boys !!

.. when live will go in the video domain ..a video interface for realtime use will be nice too..


so good luck ableton i trust in you and the values that make your success but dont forget them ! innovation , quality , simplicity ,ergonomy , customer friendly , and of course STABILITY ..



because .. im thinking about the big name artists who have install on their computer live 8.1.1 , who dont have the previous versions and who will go for touring and to play live with it front of lot of people .. good luck...and have one minute of silence for them..héhé because of ..

brzikkzzzzzksszzzzkzzkzzzzz "serious runtime error".. ouh ouh ouh ouh ..amen !!




all these things are just my modest and surely naive opinions on such complex things !

but ..despite that ..LIVE IS MY MAIN DAW and will BE THAT FOREVER héhé ... IM IN LOVE WITH THIS LITTLE BEAST !!!! héhé


and sorry for my bad english ..


tschuusss !!! and dont forget : POSSIBILITY TO PRINT FX/AUTOMATION DIRECTLY IN AUDIO CLIP WITHOUT FREEZING ALL THE TRACK (huge time saver /ergonomy ..) AT LEAST FOR LIVE 8.5 héhé

[projoosa]

Projoosa - I don't know how long you have owned Live but your user name is a new registration. I first demoed Live at 5 and bought as soon as L6 was released and have gotten to know several people who have used the product since Live 1 or 2. Anyone who had experienced Live before Live 8 can tell you that Ableton have changed a lot in the past couple of years and not all of the business decisions taken have been successful. Lots of ambition but not enough resources to make this all work smoothly. So it's a bit insulting to spout off about 'why don't you make some music' when it appears that you only signed up so recently.

as it happens I own live 6, 7 and 8 and have been happy with them all. 8 has been buggy in places but ableton are frequent enough in fixes and quick enough on support to not be an issue. There seems to be a dichotomy where a lot of the forum continually ask for new features, but then complain that there are bugs when they are developed...

[leedsquietman]

Thanks for the explanation.

I get what you mean too - I think every DAW user wants more features all the time, and expects it to come bug free but like a machine, the more moving parts it has, the more chance there is for it to break, so yeah - it's a strange one. I just think that Live 8 has been the buggiest release yet and that ABleton made a conscious decision somewhere around Live 5 to go more DAWcentric and then after getting complaints about 'losing the cutting edgeness of the live performance angle' tried to do too many things to get some kudos back, such as Max4Live and Serato all at once.

You can never please everyone all the time unfortunately ...

[zalo]

You can never please everyone all the time unfortunately ...

you havent heard our upcoming release then!!

[djsynchro]

I have a friend who lives in Berlin and he has a brother who has got a friend who knows someone who overheard a conversation in a pub talking about a guy who has a sister who knows a girl who works at the unemployment benefits office in Berlin and apparently Gerhard Behle came in last month to register.

[SubFunk]

I have a friend who lives in Berlin and he has a brother who has got a friend who knows someone who overheard a conversation in a pub talking about a guy who has a sister who knows a girl who works at the unemployment benefits office in Berlin and apparently Gerhard Behle came in last month to register.

ROFL

well, in berlin that would not even surprise LOL

[Eudawg]

Hello everyone, I don't comment that much, but this one is to juicy to let go. Live is so powerful that once people can get pass the GUI they will begin to understand the work flow. What I mean is that, a good percentage of people that try live and get spooked because they don't have a clue where to start using the program. I'm talking about people that do HIP HOP mostly. Even though it has groove features and caters to djing. So maybe more tutorials on how to use it with hip hop like the one producer SKI BEATZ. Different producers show there skills on how to use the software really helps in building confidence in customers. Believe me people that do hip hop really want the best thing that can give them the quickest results to produce to keep the music flow going.

Maybe some more Max for Live gadgets like the one I saw with a turn table, can't remember what web-page I saw it on.

Maybe plug-in presets to give a nice HIP HOP, Electronic, Dance, etc... feel ( Compressors', EQ, Reverb )

Even change the face plate on drum racks with a little graffiti on the , compressor, reverb, delay plug-ins. Make people feel like there's something there.... spark curiosity.

Maybe a feature like snap to groove ( kick or snare drum lays sample accurately to where you want more in detail for that really tight feel ).

By the way.. this forum to me is the best. Peace.

[Eudawg]

I forgot to add they haven't even scratched the surface of hip hop customers. Like fruity loops is dang near a house home name. Because everyone can download it for free. Eventually they buy the program because they get tired of the cracked version. Peace.

[djsynchro]

Different producers show there skills

Your spalling is tarribel

[Ben_Binary]

POSSIBILITY TO PRINT FX/AUTOMATION DIRECTLY IN AUDIO CLIP WITHOUT FREEZING ALL THE TRACK (huge time saver /ergonomy ..) AT LEAST FOR LIVE 8.5 héhé

Or Freeze clip instead of only whole track.

Freeze or print clip would be awesome !!!
Freeze or print clip would be awesome !!!
Freeze or print clip would be awesome !!!
Freeze or print clip would be awesome !!!
Freeze or print clip would be awesome !!!

[petit nuage]

totally agree !! + 1.000.000.0000

imagine you have recorded a long audio file ..and you want to just use ableton for editing..not external editor ..

when you have spliced ,chopped ,lot of audio files ,when you have to freeze ALL the files for applying an eq setting to just a file and after re-freeze all the track to applying to a second clip a different eq setting etc... it is long process..

yeah keeping the possibility to freeze BUT only the concerned clip... or better..possibility to freeze or to print it directly in the clip a bit like the new groove thing ....so the choice between freezing and printing directly ..


i find the freeze "all the track" mode is not in the spirit of live..not regonomic and time consuming

freeze ,print or flatten ,freeze ,print ..pffff definitively boring when you have lot of files to clean

[D K]

anyone else check out the monolake interview in the latest wire?
apparently henke is on hiatus from ableton...
this could mean a fracture in the company, or it could mean r&d is on hold until 8 is made stable.
or it could mean fuck all... but is interesting in the scope of the current state of the company...

[SubFunk]

anyone else check out the monolake interview in the latest wire?
apparently henke is on hiatus from ableton...
this could mean a fracture in the company, or it could mean r&d is on hold until 8 is made stable.
or it could mean fuck all... but is interesting in the scope of the current state of the company...

no news at all, he is since a while, he is concentrating on the more important bit in (a musicians) life, making and performing music.

[3dot...]

no news at all, he is since a while, he is concentrating on the more important bit in (a musicians) life, making and performing music.

oh yeah... Robert is actually the most important aspect in Ableton imo..
the spirit of it..
I 'heart' Robert...

[anybody human]

They have a great product, passionate users, and the people who started the company are still actively involved on a day to day basis. Doesn't sound like a company in trouble to me.

Business model? People aren't going to stop buying DAW's anytime soon. Most software companies don't sell hardware. Is Waves business model broken? No, and they have way more competition than Live. A friend bought Live 8 a couple weeks ago, said it was possibly the funnest night of his life. He's a drummer, heard about it from me, he's totally inspired and excited about music. Live is unique. They just need to keep improving the product and stay true to their vision, they'll be fine.

The issues I could see are: 1) How do they approach the production vs. live performance in future releases, that's tricky and is the big question facing Ableton. Can they do both, do they have a choice? 2). Can they maintain quality and innovation if they are eventually bought by a huge company. Remember though, they're a small company that doesn't have to answer to Wall Street, still young guys living their dream. Why would they want to sell anytime soon? I think that Live is still coming up, not in decline and can position themselves for the future by addressing production, performance, and innovation- just like they've been doing.

My 2 cents.