anybody got ableton "certified" ? is it useful?

[alex.the.forge]

couldn't afford it but this certification is free and probably useful as well: http://bit.ly/cQmu9q

[beats me]

what makes you say that? A lot of money to spend just to be a "power user".

Just to clarify - you don't do a course at a certified training center and then become certified, the certification is for the instructors so that if people are looking to learn about Live they can go to someone who has been checked out and verified by Ableton. That's really all it is. They may have raised the bar by introducing it though in that now it notices if a teacher isn't certified, but it's really just a form of quality control.

I don't really know, or didn't know until now, Ableton's policy or criteria. I'm saying in a general sense.

Anybody I've ever met that went to a specific music related institution that went for a year or more has said it was largely a waste of their time, they could have learned most of it on their own with a little discipline, it didn't do anything to help their career, but still have the school loan debt similar to going to a regular college but with a piece of paper that is pretty much worthless.

The short time frame certification courses have similar results with less of a debt and are mostly only good if your current job requires you to do it or if a job you're hoping for prefers you have that under your belt.

But none of these people were looking to teach on any level. They thought it would somehow successfully springboard them into the music industry and it didn't for any of them. Personal drive and experience is more of a selling point than any of these programs.

[tigali]

Anybody getting certified to boost their music career is barking up the wrong tree. It's a teaching qualification. It's just Abletons in-house quality control mechanism so that they can officially stand over certain teachers as being of a certain standard. The benefit to the teacher is not just charging more per hour, it's the fact that people who wish to learn Live will tend to choose you over non-certified teachers as they can see proof of your abilities.
This all has nothing to do with a successful music career. It's a different job entirely.

[leedsquietman]

Yes, what he said.

To be fair, the guy who has Canadian Ableton certification teaches music at a college in Toronto. I don't see him vying to be a rock star or big name DJ earning megabucks. I don't know what his income level would be at such an institute but assume it's a comfortable living or at least a fairly enjoyable way to make a living, without the guy likely to be driving around in an Aston Martin. Toronto is an EXPENSIVE city to live in but not compared to Vancouver, London, Tokyo, Moscow or Paris.

[alex.the.forge]

sorry but I'm sceptical.... is there really anyone getting ableton certified so that they can be rock stars????

my feeling says not. Don't know what the motherflip you people are on about

[beats me]

sorry but I'm sceptical.... is there really anyone getting ableton certified so that they can be rock stars????

my feeling says not. Don't know what the motherflip you people are on about

Well despite the the love we have for Ableton on this forum it's still highly niche. And again, I'm talking in general of people I've talked to about these music application certification programs even before Ableton existed. But I think the basic end result would still be the same, if not worse given the state of the music industry. It's the assumption that knowing a program better is somehow going to make you exponentially more creative in writing music that either leads to your own hits or working for some big studio that produces hits.

[nebulae]

^I've seen this debate go back and forth. Honestly, I think if you're going to teach, then certification has a lot of benefits. Being listed on Abe.com being probably worth the sticker price alone, as that leads to instant credibility.

I'm not sure who does this as a way to become a bigger star. Just my two cents...seems like wasted effort.

There's likely a debate as to if it's worthwhile if you're an instructor. From a practical standpoint, I can't say that I've learned more by going through some degree program than on my own or via experience. But that can be said about a college degree or other form of credential. Ultimately, the value of the credential is to have the credibility, not the knowledge. I don't see this as any different.

As for whether Live is a niche or not...well, that's a matter of who you talk to. If you're in LA, and you're not running Pro Tools on a Mac, then you're a bottom feeder, and your music is garbage, or so I'm told. If you're in many other parts of the world, Live is the tool of choice for production and performance. So I think it's a matter of perspective and marketing. We all know what it can do and what it can't. I believe that part of this credential is to be able to get the message of what it can do out there.

[pepezabala]

you can learn a lot by just watching someone with skillz use a software program, even if you know it already.

forge - stump us with a question.

Here is a good question:

What is the f****** orange dot for? (explain with an example that includes oranges and apples). Where has it gone to anyways, it has not been there since some time? Why?

[Tone Deft]

oh no, I'm not going there, do not taunt the orange dot.

[beats me]

As for whether Live is a niche or not...well, that's a matter of who you talk to. If you're in LA, and you're not running Pro Tools on a Mac, then you're a bottom feeder, and your music is garbage, or so I'm told. If you're in many other parts of the world, Live is the tool of choice for production and performance. So I think it's a matter of perspective and marketing. We all know what it can do and what it can't. I believe that part of this credential is to be able to get the message of what it can do out there.

Not to ruin your dream sequence, but I don't believe that Live is used more than any other DAW for production anywhere in the world. Nope. Not going to buy that. Performance? Sure. But not production. And I'm including all genres, not just floor pounding dance music.

And unforetunetly Live's forward momentum up to this point has had a huge boulder thrown in front of it with the instability of 8 and other DAW developers starting to catch on that users want performance options as part of the package. Throw Maschine in there as well. Ableton is still ahead of the curve and could be seen as the industry standard for performance much like Serato for DJing…but look at where the playing field is currently going with that as well.

[nebulae]

^yeah, I don't disagree with that perspective from the top end. My sense with many of the musicians I know is that they're using Live to produce as well. I guess what I'm wondering is how a certification program would actually hurt in Live trying to become known as a production tool.

[beats me]

I'm not saying certification isn't helpful in some way, but what I am saying is if certifications in Pro Tools, Logic, or Cubase hasn't worked wonders for people's careers then I don't see how certification in Live would be any different.

I'll make 2 possible exceptions.

1. You'd be first on the bus (so to speak) if/when Live takes off as a serious contender in the production DAW world. Again, all genres.

2. If the curriculum is heavily based around performance because that is what sets it apart and a lot of artists are probably more interested in turning their music they recorded with another DAW into some performable set than working with Live's production shortcomings. I think plenty of people are fine with working in a 2 DAW world where each has different advantages depending on the task at hand, or at least I am.

[nebulae]

The thing is that there are specific classes that teach you how to create and produce music and use tools like Reason and Live to show signal flow, etc. I think the difference between our perspectives is that you're approaching this from the top end, where a certification exists for a well-established program, whereas I'm coming from the bottom where Live is a great tool to teach somehow how to make and perform music.

[beats me]

I'm approaching it from the angle that Tom Cosm is the yardstick by which all Live certification and teaching should be measured.

And I'll be damned if he ain't just givin' it away for free.

[eldar]

If the certificaton process is anything like their QA then it really is just a piece of paper.

I keed, i keed...