CRASHCRASHCRASHCRASHCRASHCRASHCRASHCRASH

[3dot...]

I'm not even hitting 'recover' anymore ..it's dangerous
and also since I save so often..

making my live setup totally stable is not a simple task nowadays..
it's 2 steps forward.. crash.. then 1 step backwards..loop that over and over

[LoopStationZebra]

yeah it looks like people don't actually want to get their stuff working, and just cry? .

well, when it's already acknowledged that there are problems with Live 8 then it does seem like a real waste of time to reinstall your OS when a beta in a few days might solve your issues

if all you want is a working system, anything that could help is worth it for me. might be different for you. but i care about having a working system, not about who's to blame why it isn't. might be hp putting a bad hw config together. might be some hw developer building a faulty chip. might be intel, might be microsoft. might be any of the companies who wrote a driver. might be some windows update (again microsoft, but another subpart). might be ableton live. might be some external device.

i just want to have my system working. and to do so, i often try about everything. i would even switch to mac if i would know that would help.

yes, live needs to get more stable again. it's highest priority and has to be. but independent on it, every customer can do much to find out the most stable solution for himself.

for a while my desktop was instable, having audio dropouts and such, soundcard driver crashed time and times again. in the end, i replaced the usb cable. all the issues got fixed.

but i see a lot of people in here not wanting to spend time making their personal setup work stable. i can understand it. "i have better things to do". i don't. i want my gigs to work without issue (and even while producing, i don't want issues). it's worth for me, investing time to get that stuff right.

so i do my part, and i really hope ableton (and all the others listed above) do their part, so i have the least amount of possible issues.
but if i don't do my part, how should i be allowed to blame the others? this doesn't fit into my way of living. it's called egoism, and i don't apply this anywhere to "solve my problem", as it never works.

You say this quite often, but a lot of folks have ZERO cash to try something different/new/experimental with hardware. You seem to think that most folks (or, at the very least, a substantial number) with problems don't do shit except come and bitch on the forum. I think that's entirely incorrect. There may be a very small few that do that, but you've twisted it into some sort of massive pandemic in which no one cares about solving their own problems. I think most users out there, when experiencing some crash or difficulty, spend HOURS trying to reconfigure things/test/etc in order to understand what happened. They will then try and fix it or come up with an acceptable workaround. Your comments are simply an insult to the MAJORITY of us users who have done EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER to fix our issues. Period.

And the reporting process with Ableton? meh. If they can't reproduce the bug the issue is thrown into a giant garbageheap labeled USER PROBLEM - IGNORE. That's not to say that they didn't make a little effort to help me out, but it was quite clear early on that I was on my own.

The problem with you at the moment Dave is that you have absolutely no empathy whatsoever. None. You've instead taken an extremely negative and judgemental position in which - for all your acknowledgement of Ableton's faults - it's still pretty much the fault of the user.

So,
1. I have a serious problem.
2. I spend hours trying to fix it with no luck.
3. I email and send a report to Ableton.
4. They offer little in the way of help and basically tell me it's my problem.

THAT is the NORM at the moment. Not the exception, but the rule. And that is fucking frustrating as hell.

[3phase]

i finally decided to go back to 7 now..its to risky to stick with 8 for stage use.. and when you use it in the studio you have to do everything twice..

i use Logic now as DAW and L7 for live.. thats the best solution.. besides.. Logic sounds better..and stretches better.. and has a decend sample editor that allows to create clips for live quickly with the nice export of a selection function.. no extra renderings, consolidations, croppings and copying of the files. Just select and export into your live lib..done much much quicker that all this, do something here and there and press this and that button in live...

however.. still hate that logic is not pattern orientated anymore.. like the old lengeling sequencers..

a false move that actually allowed ableton to become such a good seller...

[LoopStationZebra]

Tried Mainstage yet? I keep hearing excellent things for live use...

[davepermen]

You say this quite often, but a lot of folks have ZERO cash to try something different/new/experimental with hardware. You seem to think that most folks (or, at the very least, a substantial number) with problems don't do shit except come and bitch on the forum. I think that's entirely incorrect. There may be a very small few that do that, but you've twisted it into some sort of massive pandemic in which no one cares about solving their own problems. I think most users out there, when experiencing some crash or difficulty, spend HOURS trying to reconfigure things/test/etc in order to understand what happened. They will then try and fix it or come up with an acceptable workaround. Your comments are simply an insult to the MAJORITY of us users who have done EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER to fix our issues. Period.

i have not spent one dollar to experiment with other setups or hw. that's what you have friends for. you do have friends with similar profession, don't you?
and no, my comments are not insult to those that tried everything in their power to fix the issue. it's a motivation for those, who didn't, to consider it. at least, it should be..

And the reporting process with Ableton? meh. If they can't reproduce the bug the issue is thrown into a giant garbageheap labeled USER PROBLEM - IGNORE. That's not to say that they didn't make a little effort to help me out, but it was quite clear early on that I was on my own.

which i tried to explain (but still, if they could get that under control it would be nice).
a non-reproducible bug is very very hard to fix. very. which is why they try with all their options to get users to make the bugs somehow reproducible. to be able to locate and fix the bug as quickly as possible, and to test if it's actually fixed.

The problem with you at the moment Dave is that you have absolutely no empathy whatsoever. None. You've instead taken an extremely negative and judgemental position in which - for all your acknowledgement of Ableton's faults - it's still pretty much the fault of the user.

no, i just try to be "the other side" to those who show no empathy to the ableton workers, that they have, in the current mess, a VERY hard job to do. esp. when we talk about bugs they can't reproduce. this is very very very hard, and takes thus very much time. going trough millions of lines of code again, thinking for every of those lines what all could go wrong takes VERY much time. they can use any help from us customers to be able to focus where exactly the issues are.

So,
1. I have a serious problem.
2. I spend hours trying to fix it with no luck.
3. I email and send a report to Ableton.
4. They offer little in the way of help and basically tell me it's my problem.

THAT is the NORM at the moment. Not the exception, but the rule. And that is fucking frustrating as hell.

yes. and i feel with all of you having those kind of situations. i just see some not doing their part,and complain. no empathy for those.
and besides that i try to give ideas about options one could try to get the own setup more stable.
another idea to try for some: disable multithreading. 3phase had a midi problem when multithreading was enabled. maybe disabling multithreading could help some others (if the system is fast enough to handle it within a single thread). don't know how many have tried that yet?

[dum]

half the time the sperm man is saying he's experiencing no problems. none.
the other half of the time he's claiming to be zen, diligent & systematic in his crash/bug reports.

Only one of those scenarios can be true.

[davepermen]

half the time the sperm man is saying he's experiencing no problems. none.

which is about ableton live, yes

the other half of the time he's claiming to be zen, diligent & systematic in his crash/bug reports.

which is about complete stage setups, party organisations, trucks on the street parade, but, too, on other software issues, unrelated to music (graphic programs like corel missbehaving, and other stuff).

Only one of those scenarios can be true.

no. i explained it before. and just because i don't have problems doensn't mean i'm not good at helping others. working in the software business, and having to do callsupport for customers, too, etc teaches you quite a bit how problems can be fixed in good ways. that together with a bit of stage-knowledge and what can go wrong there, i'm quite fine with beign able to make both the scenarios true.

(you don't have to be sick to be a good doctor.. you don't have to be fat to teach a fat how to eat right (and it's better if you are not, else, how would you prove that your solution works?))

[3phase]

Tried Mainstage yet? I keep hearing excellent things for live use...

I thougt about it.. but in the end of the day i am pretty used to live by now..after 8 years..... and have many many clips

however i will experiment.. but wanted to give the lunchpad a shot before totaly abandon ableton..

I allways had probems with the apc that it only had 5 scenes.. because i often have one scene.. but 10 alternative clips in certain tracks.. especially in drum tracks..while the basstrack only has one clip.. i can have lots of variation in the drums and sequences.....which actually is playig live..

Just launching 5 scenes is extended playback..

so..maybe the additional 3 rows make a difference there.. if not its maybe time to change the concept..

mainstage and reaktor could be indeed a hell of a team..

[HeadrickProductions]

yeah it looks like people don't actually want to get their stuff working, and just cry? .

but i see a lot of people in here not wanting to spend time making their personal setup work stable. i can understand it. "i have better things to do". i don't. i want my gigs to work without issue (and even while producing, i don't want issues). it's worth for me, investing time to get that stuff right.

so i do my part, and i really hope ableton (and all the others listed above) do their part, so i have the least amount of possible issues.but if i don't do my part, how should i be allowed to blame the others? this doesn't fit into my way of living. it's called egoism, and i don't apply this anywhere to "solve my problem", as it never works.

I love the fact that we are expected to pay for a product and then help fix it........It should either work out of the box or not be sold.....And no these are real people complaining cause we spent money on this software...DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO ANYONE OUT THERE EXCEPT ABLETON PROGRAMMERS and the ableton "friends" that keep defending them.

[davepermen]

I love the fact that we are expected to pay for a product and then help fix it........It should either work out of the box or not be sold.....And no these are real people complaining cause we spent money on this software...DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO ANYONE OUT THERE EXCEPT ABLETON PROGRAMMERS and the ableton "friends" that keep defending them.

yes, it makes sense, to me, too.

but as we can't change the fact that it happened to be that way, we can a) complain, or b) try to help.

which one, a or b, do you think, would help more?


if we could change past, that would be the best thing. but no matter how we don't like it, the situation is as is, sadly. now the question is, how can we get out of it as fast as possible. by complaining, or by helping?

[Tone Deft]

I love the fact that we are expected to pay for a product and then help fix it........It should either work out of the box or not be sold.....And no these are real people complaining cause we spent money on this software...DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO ANYONE OUT THERE EXCEPT ABLETON PROGRAMMERS and the ableton "friends" that keep defending them.

who asked you to fix it? all they ask is that you be patient while they stop all new product development to fix it.

[davepermen]

i asked 3phase. which resulted in that much ramblings.

and i suggested it in here. not helping will not help them. helping might. which, thus, for me, is the solution to go for.

[3phase]

i asked 3phase. which resulted in that much ramblings.

and i suggested it in here. not helping will not help them. helping might. which, thus, for me, is the solution to go for.

[davepermen]

and he never considers to think about what i said or consider it.. sad asocial behaviour.

[Tone Deft]

and he never considers to think about what i said or consider it.. sad asocial behaviour.

if it's any consolation he's not having a good time.

the guy's being the necessary pain in the ass Ableton needs right now. I think he is over the top but for all the crap he catches he reigns it in OK.

3phase - I saw in another thread that you're moving to Live 7 for your show, that's the move.