leedsquietman wrote:Zeno - Services and professionals are the same thing - the comparison with the plumber and the audio/mastering engineer should not be something to be scoffed at - I did 3 years of audio engineering/music technology at University, plus another 2 courses on mastering (which cost me mucho dollars), then did 6 years working for a pittance in studios, where the first 2 years were pretty much tea boy/sandwiches and tape op editing 2" multitrack tapes, before being allowed to touch a mic stand and another 6 months beyond that to lay fingers on a console. Yet, this is all redundant, music is the only field where it's skilled people are expected to just give it all away in this age of entitlement. Immigration and unemployment was not mentioned or inferred to except by you. Does your local supermarket give away your food? Does your plumber not charge you $55 an hour and more plus parts and labour, because I would like to meet these people ...
You missed the point - firstly, the OP and I made up by PM, and I apologized in the thread and was trying to reconcile the tone before you basically stir the pot again and label me as a greedy and unsuccessful shit while going on to toot your own horn. I'm so happy you're doing fine ...I was laid off after 8 years because no-one is hiring studios any more or paying for musical expertise, they are just getting a bunch of cracked software and plugins and some of the cheekier ones try to sell this mass produced garbage. Many studios have gone to the wall and some of that expertise will go to waste, which is a real pity.
Secondly, I have done a ton of things for free including mastering people's work on this forum for free, and doing extensive remixing and mastering to some people I like and admire their talent for a fraction of what it would cost in a studio. I just donated a track to a Haiti charity project (
http://haiti.bandcamp.com ) - my track is called 'Hope' track number 4, so far we have raised several hundred dollars. Ewan McGregor and Nick Mason are so rich they could afford to not work again, I, like most people are struggling just to survive. If I had their money I would be giving plenty back too...
We all do what we do for love, but if that doesn't put food on the table then we have to do something else. We don't live in a ancient life of bartering music for food, or goats for blacksmiths, the world we live in demands cold, hard cash.
I gave the OP some tips by PM but thanks to those people like Axel who live in the real world and get what it means to make a living from music and how difficult that is. It's not just a case of 'not being good enough', there are plenty of people out of work or who went into other careers who have better chops and more skills than some who are doing this for a living full time, it's a complex thing but thank your lucky stars if you can exist in this line of work, it's brutal out there.
Ah, so it's alright for Nick Mason and Ewan McGregor to do stuff for free, but Bob Katz, Bob Ludwig, Doug Sax or Roger Nichols can't afford to?
Where is your coherency man?
Once again, the dumb comparisons between plumbers, groceries and musicians return! Hello you!
How can giving away products which are manufactured at a cost, and distributed with the sole aim of making a profit compare to a service which requires nothing more than your time, and is often enjoyable? Keeping in context if we must, 3 years ago I paid over £3000 to have all the gas mains, radiators and boiler replaced in my house. The engineer who installed it, cashed in on the job, but since he's a nice guy, he regularly comes back to service and adjust pressure and wotnot, happily weaving his right to £70/hr for his time. Why? I'll let you figure that out.
Similarly, I wouldn't spend a day working 10 hrs engineering a live gig for a corporate client like Sony for a kiss on the cheeks. I will expect my every last minute accounted for, but suppose I've just worked for 12 consecutive days on said gig, at £400/day, and the production manager (or anybody else for that matter) asked me to engineer the band at his daughter's wedding, why the hell would i NOT do it?
Sure, there is a fine line between asking for a favour and taking advantage of someone's kindness, but i usually find it's those at the bottom of the ladder who have the most 'principles' and readily shout their moral values, and quite frankly it's also usually the same folks who continue to remain at the bottom of the ladder...
Moving on to the much loved to hate 'music industry disintegrating and respectable industry professionals having to work in bars' beaten to a pulp debate...
Seriously? Are we kidding or is this for real??! If i asked you when did we have more people working in the music business, 20 years ago or today? You would genuinely tell me it was 20 years ago, wouldn't you? Come on, be serious now. That is total nonsense... for every studio that closes down 10 others open. Sure, ways of working have changed and for many people for the worse. But back in the day all you had to do was own a mixing desk and your services would be flying off the shelf... today you need to step up your game.
But for those who find their ways things are looking up. There are more live gigs, tours, recordings and media content to be filled today than ever before... and the population of music industry professionals has grown exponentially.
Sure, the battle is fierce and the waters are choppy, but don't come telling me it's because the oceans have dried up that your ship isn't moving!
GAFM ***
