Ableton Forum

Seems to me like they may have learned from their mistakes with Live 8.

As far as Bitwig goes, it has a lot of things I want and that's great. However still nothing really that makes up for the years of workflow I have invested in Live, especially for performance.

I'm cool with improving 8 in the meantime, version upgrades just mean more work and time for me. I am always excited for new features but they also come with a little baggage.

GiveUsLive9 wrote:Thanks for the feedback guys. The topic needs conversation and input from all sides.

cotdagoo wrote:What tells you that? Their website's been saying the beta is almost ready since January.. I wouldn't be holding by breath.

@ctodagoo Check their latest tweet and other recent news from them.

You mean the one from Feb 21st? lol.. a full month ago... and almost a full month since they initially posted details in January..?

They haven't exactly posted anything 'newsworthy' in over a month on their twitter, facebook, or the news section of their website..

So where's all this news pointing to them actually releasing something shortly? and not just hyping their product and building anticipation?
If there's been nothing posted since Feb 21st.. I stand by my initial stance.. Wouldn't hold my breath or make plans to jump ship for something that hasn't even been tested by the public first.

cotdagoo wrote:What tells you that? Their website's been saying the beta is almost ready since January.. I wouldn't be holding by breath.

And remember the definition of almost: It's just a polite way of saying not.

cotdagoo wrote:

GiveUsLive9 wrote:Thanks for the feedback guys. The topic needs conversation and input from all sides.

cotdagoo wrote:What tells you that? Their website's been saying the beta is almost ready since January.. I wouldn't be holding by breath.

@ctodagoo Check their latest tweet and other recent news from them.

You mean the one from Feb 21st? lol.. a full month ago... and almost a full month since they initially posted details in January..?

They haven't exactly posted anything 'newsworthy' in over a month on their twitter, facebook, or the news section of their website..

So where's all this news pointing to them actually releasing something shortly? and not just hyping their product and building anticipation?
If there's been nothing posted since Feb 21st.. I stand by my initial stance.. Wouldn't hold my breath or make plans to jump ship for something that hasn't even been tested by the public first.

The end product may be fantastic but Bitwig are utterly shit at marketing - they could of taken advantage of all the positive feedback and excitement and released teasers/pics/video etc up until the release date. Instead - silence and the resulting customer apathy.
Idiots.

remute99 wrote: The end product may be fantastic but Bitwig are utterly shit at marketing - they could of taken advantage of all the positive feedback and excitement and released teasers/pics/video etc up until the release date. Instead - silence and the resulting customer apathy.
Idiots.

EXACTLY!

They haven't even released anything yet, and already I feel like I've been disappointed.

I mean, it's worked out well for them seeing as they did very little promo/marketing to get this kind of a response (people who can't wait to dump what they've got for greener pastures) But everyone's just waiting with bated breath now, and it's doing them absolute shit for publicity.

gizmo wrote:Seems that with the technology live provides right now you can't make music, i wonder if is music what you should do...

I'm not sure why you persist defending technical stagnation. Churn your own butter. Cook your meals over a fire. Ride a horse everywhere. Morse code is good enough right?
Perhaps I simply have no business communicating if I refuse to talk via telegraph. It seems like you are a fanboy, Ableton employee, or employee's family member - I dunno. Irrational loyalty...

My statement is simple. Out of a genuine desire to see Ableton succeed, I say, listen to user demands in order to stay competitive, or lose the users.
I fight for the users!

cotdagoo: What tells you that? Their website's been saying the beta is almost ready since January.. I wouldn't be holding by breath.
me: Check their latest tweet and other recent news from them.
cotdagoo: You mean the one from Feb 21st? lol.. a full month ago... and almost a full month since they initially posted details in January..?

Yes, Feb 21st is much more recent than January.

cotdagoo: They haven't exactly posted anything 'newsworthy' in over a month on their twitter, facebook, or the news section of their website..

The Bitwig team has stated, "We're a small team and we're concentrating on the product - please try to understand..." That said, yes, I would love to hear more news from them.
I think they need to hire more poeple. Might be more ex-Ableton employees looking for jobs soon. Who knows.

cotdagoo: Wouldn't hold my breath or make plans to jump ship for something that hasn't even been tested by the public first.

You are free to do as you please, of course. And similarly, I won't stay for something that hasn't even been hinted at, if another thing comes along that meets my needs.

cotdagoo: they did very little promo/marketing to get this kind of a response (people who can't wait to dump what they've got for greener pastures)

The greener pasture could be Live 9. That's my point. It's a warning to Ableton. Get with the competition. And Bitwig is just one competitor, mentioned because it looks to
feature everything Ableton has, including its workflow, plus all the things users of Ableton have requested for years (not just me, thousands of us). The entire purpose
of my initial contribution to this thread is in Ableton's interest, and my desire to see them succeed, rather than fall to the wayside.

GiveUsLive9 wrote:

cotdagoo: they did very little promo/marketing to get this kind of a response (people who can't wait to dump what they've got for greener pastures)

The greener pasture could be Live 9. That's my point. It's a warning to Ableton. Get with the competition. And Bitwig is just one competitor, mentioned because it looks to
feature everything Ableton has, including its workflow, plus all the things users of Ableton have requested for years (not just me, thousands of us). The entire purpose
of my initial contribution to this thread is in Ableton's interest, and my desire to see them succeed, rather than fall to the wayside.

Since you're new here, I should probably direct you to this post: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 2#p1381772

Pretty sure they've been getting with the competition for a while by the sounds of it.

cotdagoo wrote:Since you're new here...

Seriously?! Hahahaaa

cotdagoo wrote:Pretty sure they've been getting with the competition for a while by the sounds of it.

You're just..."Pretty sure"? Evidence shows otherwise. For a while now, as in years gone by, the competition has long surpassed them. And I'm not talking about Bitwig.
But I've said all this already.

Ableton is special, and has a following for a reason. It really is/was an amazing product. I really want it to succeed.

Silence is not a good marketing strategy. Ableton, if you are going to compete, generate some hype like all other successful software companies do by showing some of
what we can expect. It's what consumers are now accustomed to. By NOT showing us anything, you effectively show us that you have nothing coming.
If Live 9 were getting close, even to a beta release, announcing 8.3 beta seems odd. No?

GiveUsLive9 wrote:

cotdagoo wrote:Since you're new here...

Seriously?! Hahahaaa

So you're some troll or coward making a new account to post this drivel? Seriously?! Hahahaaa indeed...

oh yay.. I get to edit my post now too..

GiveUsLive9 wrote: You're just..."Pretty sure"? Evidence shows otherwise. For a while now, as in years gone by, the competition has long surpassed them. And I'm not talking about Bitwig.
But I've said all this already.

Ableton is special, and has a following for a reason. It really is/was an amazing product. I really want it to succeed.

Silence is not a good marketing strategy. Ableton, if you are going to compete, generate some hype like all other successful software companies do by showing some of
what we can expect. It's what consumers are now accustomed to. By NOT showing us anything, you effectively show us that you have nothing coming.
If Live 9 were getting close, even to a beta release, announcing 8.3 beta seems odd. No?

Sure enough that given the date it was posted (after bitwig's last contribution and the during reaction the promos got), and the absolute mess that 8 was from release to just a few months ago that they have no choice but to be a contender with Live 9. They would be absolutely stupid to not be working their asses off to make a release that will blow everyone away, and cement their relationship with their existing userbase.

All the post I linked is saying is they've already been working hard for a kick ass release, but they've got added incentive to make things better with the competition from bitwig. The fact that they've chosen to not say much about Live 9s progress is likely partially due to some of the touted features of Live 8 not getting properly realized and subsequently absent from the release, and also to wait to see exactly what they're up against (since NO ONE has tried bitwig outside bitwig) before releasing a royal flush release of Live 9.

Their silence is pretty much where bitwig is as IMO.. They've both said very little, bitwig on the other hand released some images and a video because they don't have any current share of the market and NEED to hype their product.. People have been talking about Live 9 for at least a year already just waiting for it's beta or details of any kind..

Who knows.. Abes could release a beta before bitwig at the rate of progress I'm seeing over there..

cotdagoo wrote:So you're some troll or coward making a new account to post this drivel? Seriously?! Hahahaaa indeed...

Ooooh good one! Bazinga!

No. I simply don't feel like being griefed on my main account, which has paid licences tied to it, by Ableton for making demands here.
You don't go to a protest with your name on your shirt. The demand is important; not the name.

Also, is cotdagoo your first name or last name?

Aaaand btw, trolls don't work to challenge a company to deliver for its users. Trolls start trouble for fun; you definitely seem like one.
Thousands of us want this. Why resist improvement? Why support stagnation? Why do you want Ableton to fail?
Not cool with us that love Live and want it to succeed in the future.

GiveUsLive9 is certainly challenging.

GiveUsLive9 wrote:

cotdagoo wrote:So you're some troll or coward making a new account to post this drivel? Seriously?! Hahahaaa indeed...

Ooooh good one! Bazinga!

No. I simply don't feel like being griefed on my main account, which has paid licences tied to it, by Ableton for making demands here.
You don't go to a protest with your name on your shirt. The demand is important; not the name.

Also, is cotdagoo your first name or last name?

Aaaand btw, trolls don't work to challenge a company to deliver for its users. Trolls start trouble for fun; you definitely seem like one.
Thousands of us want this. Why resist improvement? Why support stagnation? Why do you want Ableton to fail?
Not cool with us that love Live and want it to succeed in the future.

So coward it is!

Clearly your protest can't be worth too much.. you think you'll get less support or something if you make a few demands? Nonsense..

My name couldn't be of the least concern of any of this.. I've never pretended to be someone else here.. That's just dumb.

You're clearly delusional.. I'm not against any of the things you're apparently fighting for..

I Just tried to point out there's been zero movement on anything at bitwig other than a few tweets, posts and pictures/video over the course of 3 months.. I signed up to the newsletter and haven't heard a peep.. So saying they're beta testing soon was a stretch..

"a few tweets, posts and pictures/video over the course of 3 months" more than we've seen of Live 9...

And by the way, I didn't address the coward accusation because you were just being childish with it. Some straw-man stuff there. Stick to the topic.
My credentials, level of anonymity, etc. have nothing to do with the topic. Quit being a pain by attacking me instead of making valid points, please.

you're pissing into the wind.

Ableton really don't give a fcuk about taking criticism. they take it but they don't take it personal.

if you think posting on their forum is going to get the software released to YOUR demands and not their business model you're delusional.

also, I'm sure they already know who you are. it's really not cool to post under two logins, that'll get you more negative attention from them than the harshest of demands to get Live 9 out.

the bullshit part is that I'm probably familiar with your regular handle and I very well could be somewhat insulting someone I would never insult. or maybe you're just another one of the regular assholes.




Ableton you fucking retarded boot licking finger sniffing mouth breathing window licking idiots!!! put Live 9 out NOW, you pissed off the user base with a totally fucked up Live 8 release then you make us suffer through painful interim bullshit bug fix after bullshit big fix and people are still having problems. enough with this Live 8 bullshit, release Live 9 you fucking assholes or I'll sell my license, use a cracked version and never say a good thing about Live in any of a 12,000 other audio forums that I visit. I don't give a shit about a half assed apology from your CEO, that doesn't fix shit. clean up the mess you made, act like a proper DAW company and give us the regular updates we demand. how can you have dozens of users eager to give you money and you're too stupid to not take it?? what the hell is your problem?? I demand that you release Live 9 now or I'll go upstairs and tell my mom to call her credit card company and make sure that all of her cards are blocked from EVER giving Ableton another hard earned penny of her money. fuck you you fucking motherfucking fucker fucks!!!

GiveUsLive9 wrote:"a few tweets, posts and pictures/video over the course of 3 months" more than we've seen of Live 9...

You are right!

But like I said.. they have no existing userbase, no current market share, and NEED to hype their product more than Ableton does.

You already know mostly what you'll get with Live 9.. Live 8, with a whole lot more features, fixes, etc.. plus a bunch of users who've been sniffing the forums like crackheads waiting for details so they can hand over their money..

The moment Ableton releases any details they have instant sales.

The moment Bitwig releases any details they have curious people..