Wikileaks craziness

[pepezabala]

I would have liked to see your video, beats me, but

Este vídeo incluye contenido de Vevo, que lo ha bloqueado en tu país por motivos de derechos de copyright.

As Machinesworking already wrote above - your attittude is conservative - you say basically why would we want to improve anything in this world, I am satisfied with the breadcrumbs that fall from my landlords table.

People with that attitude are great consumers, tax-payers, work fine as soldiers on the battlefield and are not important at all.

However, any of the improvements in human society that made it possible that you can confortably chat on this messageboard and play music with a computer have been made by people that are interested in progress.

And progress is not possible without questioning the status quo. Progress means to want to change things. Progress means to get angry about the situation that we are living in and wanting it to improve. Fight for your ideals. Move. Do something.

[necho]

People with that attitude are great consumers

Judging by the amount of money I've given to Ableton over the years, I'm a fucking awesome consumer. I should get an award. Like some free shit or something.

[beats me]

I would have liked to see your video, beats me, but

Este vídeo incluye contenido de Vevo, que lo ha bloqueado en tu país por motivos de derechos de copyright.

As Machinesworking already wrote above - your attittude is conservative - you say basically why would we want to improve anything in this world, I am satisfied with the breadcrumbs that fall from my landlords table.

People with that attitude are great consumers, tax-payers, work fine as soldiers on the battlefield and are not important at all.

However, any of the improvements in human society that made it possible that you can confortably chat on this messageboard and play music with a computer have been made by people that are interested in progress.

And progress is not possible without questioning the status quo. Progress means to want to change things. Progress means to get angry about the situation that we are living in and wanting it to improve. Fight for your ideals. Move. Do something.

My responses in this thread have been a little over the top so thanks for responding back with a level head to keep things from spiraling out of control. I'm sure dum is reading this from heaven wishing he could step in with some solid personal insults.

The fact of the matter wikileaks couldn't have been released at a worse time, and I don't mean in a straw that broke the camels back way. I mean most people are a little preoccupied with their immediate personal problems and future to give much of a damn about it. At best all this is going to do is cause the government to clamp down more on information security.

It's the equivalent to standing on the front porch of your house that burned to the ground the night before and a Jehovah's Witness walks up and asks if you want to talk about God and ways to get a winning ticket to heaven. What, now? No. Fuck you.

But sure there'll always be a percentage of people who can take a break from their personal problems to hate on America and be shocked by that which is not shocking.

And if people haven't noticed by now our politicians stopped caring about Americans (and people of the world) a long time ago and are more interested in fighting to the death over the general platforms of their party. I think within a year when there's a meeting with Congress and the President somebody from either party will say "Shut the fuck up Mr. President and let the adults talk." And talk they will, and that's about it.

[beats me]

Not wikileaks related but fits well in here just the same.

How would you fellas handle this one?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/12/17/e ... tml?hpt=C2

Truly disgusting, but should we be piling this on our plate too?

[Machinesworking]

@ beats me

I have not worked in over a month, I work construction, there's no end in site to me being broke and settling for about 1/3 of the money I'm used to making, which was never much to begin with. With all that in mind I'm still not apathetic about our involvement in foreign wars or our abuses of international law, and I never will be. In fact I would go as far as to say your entire argument that people are more concerned with the economy, (which was tanked in no small part due to government deregulations in the banking industry), therefore have no real concern with government corruption is patently ridiculous. Even if the government had nothing at all to do with the mortgage crisis and hadn't handed money over to banks that were foreclosing on them, people would still be looking for a scapegoat, in fact I would say your whole argument is based on your armchair critic routine and the fact that you really don't in the end of the day give a shit about anything but some vague sense of guilt which you perpetually massage in political threads with redundant borderline xenophobic bland attacks on any voice of dissent that gets media attention.

Seriously, your complete and utter contribution to the topic is an apathetic dislike of any situation where the USA looks bad, and some vague attempt to justify yourself by your lack of voting? The fact is most people who don't care about the subject just don't contribute, you do, and frankly what you contribute is embarrassing to read. You very patently come off as your typical apathetic american who by his/her very nature is a major factor in our own continued aggressive short sighted policies. Which I suppose is the desired affect, good job.

Not wikileaks related but fits well in here just the same.

How would you fellas handle this one?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/12/17/e ... tml?hpt=C2

Truly disgusting, but should we be piling this on our plate too?

Not sure what you mean by piling this on our plate, but it's IMO just further confirmation that our whole involvement in that region is beyond suspect, and will come to no good. We should have pulled out IMO years ago, but hey, why do that when you can keep the Taliban at bay and secure the country for heroin dealing pedophiles? Christ?

[pepezabala]

But sure there'll always be a percentage of people who can take a break from their personal problems to hate on America and be shocked by that which is not shocking.

Wikileaks is not mainly about hating on America. It's about letting governments (all governments in the world) and corporations know that they can't break the law and get away with it forever.
Governments will now think twice before they lie to their citizens when they know that the truth will get leaked sooner or later.

[crofter]

Governments will now think twice before they lie to their citizens when they know that the truth will get leaked sooner or later.

Dream on.

[earthloop]

Excellent interview with Julian Assange on David Frost's 'Frost Over The World' program. If you want a really in depth insight into Wikileaks, Assange himself and his motives, and some VERY pointed remarks about the Swedish prosecution and the politician who interfered to revive the initially dismissed sex charges check out this vid. It is long but stick with it: it gets really interesting from the 7.30 minute mark!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6mcSXge4Qo

[beats me]

Read that the wikileaks revealed that some members of the Israeli and Palestinian governments are actually cooperating with each other and sharing information.

Shame that some kind of positive news accidently got released in a mostly anti-American narrative. Ah well, I'm sure it will be quickly forgotten much like the rest of wikileaks.

Back to the witch hunt!

[earthloop]

Shame that some kind of positive news accidently got released in a mostly anti-American narrative.

It is the U.S. 'witch hunt' lead by some of the more 'colorful' commentators over there which has made it look like an 'anti-american' narrative. I am sure that there are different views within the American community! I can't wait for some financial industry information!

...and in other news, the Ashes cricket series down here between Australia and England has reached an interesting stage: 1-1 with the English now quaking in their boots at the prospect of facing the Australian fast bowling attack on another pitch which looks like it will make the ball rear up and spit like a rattlesnake on heat!

[LoopStationZebra]

It is the U.S. 'witch hunt' lead by some of the more 'colorful' commentators over there which has made it look like an 'anti-american' narrative.

What?

...and in other news, the Ashes cricket series...

Whoa. I'm gonna stop you right there Chum because absolutely NOBODY gives a shit about cricket.

[cmcpress]

I can't really understand all this "anti-american" commentary being bandied around. Have you stopped to ask why people are "anti-american"?

The US govt can't expect to go round shitting on any country you like without expecting some comeback. At the same time we (the west) can't expect to carry on living in comfort whilst the parts of the world that make our lives so comfortable (by providing our goods), live in abject poverty.

Don't get me wrong i'm not suggesting that the poverty was caused by us westerners, but we certainly haven't done much to help them out unless you count tying them into long debt repayment plans, supporting corrupt governments, destabilising otherwise functional and legitimate governments (South America) and waging war on countries that we are ideologically opposed to but represent no clear threat (Vietnam, Iraq) as "helping".

Maybe if the US govt acted in the honest, open, transparent and decent way it purports to then these kind of leaks wouldn't be necessary.

[necho]

a mostly anti-American narrative.

At its core, this has nothing to do with "anti-american" sentiment (or "un-american activities" if you want to be old-school about it).

it has everything to do with exposing some of the realities and complexities of global diplomacy. plenty of other governments have been embarrassed by the revelations. it is about power dynamics among the global elite. I guess its "anti-elite" if its anti anything - and how often do you hear some semi-medicated psychopath on Fox railing against "elites"?

Perhaps an "anti-american narrative" has been super-imposed by the media (particularly the right wing nutters) as a means of simplifying the situation for the hard-of-thinking and mobilizing public opinion against an organization that embodies the concept of press freedom. Which ironically is a very american concept.

Also, to condemn Wikileaks as anti-american for releasing gun camera footage of civilians being used for target practice is a classic case of shooting the messenger. The needless killing of civilians is anti-american, in that it is against american interests.

[beats me]

Maybe if the US govt acted in the honest, open, transparent and decent way it purports to then these kind of leaks wouldn't be necessary.

Also, to condemn Wikileaks as anti-american for releasing gun camera footage of civilians being used for target practice is a classic case of shooting the messenger. The needless killing of civilians is anti-american, in that it is against american interests.

Really? You guys are really that delusional and believe a majority of governments and wars past and present are a bunch of niceties and playing by the rules with complete transparency? And you're truly shocked by the content of wikileaks?

Wow, just wow.

And what are you fellas going to do with this new completely shocking knowledge? I know I would be thoroughly crushed and beyond disappointed if this news was actually news to me. I think I'd start by dismantling my shrine to the US, the society I believed was perfect on every level.

Any thoughts on what country my next shrine should be dedicated to? Surely you have one in the wings that deserves more admiration than the evil US.

[necho]

Maybe if the US govt acted in the honest, open, transparent and decent way it purports to then these kind of leaks wouldn't be necessary.

Also, to condemn Wikileaks as anti-american for releasing gun camera footage of civilians being used for target practice is a classic case of shooting the messenger. The needless killing of civilians is anti-american, in that it is against american interests.

Really? You guys are really that delusional and believe a majority of governments and wars past and present are a bunch of niceties and playing by the rules with complete transparency? And you're truly shocked by the content of wikileaks?

Wow, just wow.

And what are you fellas going to do with this new completely shocking knowledge? I know I would be thoroughly crushed and beyond disappointed if this news was actually news to me. I think I'd start by dismantling my shrine to the US, the society I believed was perfect on every level.

Any thoughts on what country my next shrine should be dedicated to? Surely you have one in the wings that deserves more admiration than the evil US.

Way to miss the point. I have absolutely no illusions about the realities of war. I have two friends who served in Afghanistan, both of whom are pretty fucked now. Horrible mistakes are made, people die, and you cannot expect troops to be able to see the big picture while making decisions under pressure.

However, the footage I'm talking about is a clear example of avoidable civilian casualties, and how technology has dehumanised the act of killing to the extent that it becomes like a computer game. It is in the interest (both militarily and politically) of the US to minimize this type of event.

My point is that the leaks do not represent some sinister anti-american plot. I know its easier to see it as such, but it really is more complex than that. For me, the reaction of authorities all over the world is what's interesting - not so much the contents of the cables themselves.

BTW if you think I'm some doe-eyed liberal ideologue hippy cunt (shrine to the US? LOL!!!!), you couldn't be further from the truth. I'm bitter, twisted, jaded and cynical, and most days I struggle to muster any faith in humanity at all. I'll guess I'll forgive you though because the internet is all about making unfounded judgements on people you've never met