Ableton Forum

Touch and hold function sucks. That's implemented for touch screen device as a desperate resort. Not for production stduio tool.

Machinesworking wrote:OS9 to OSX and OSX PPC to OSX Intel for instance broke a lot of songs with plug ins being upgraded instead of updated, NI etc. broke songs left and right if you didn't have saved presets that you could bounce into the upgraded version of Absynth etc.

That's the good example of the Logic is not for proffesional. No compatibility.

Logic is hugely more CPU friendly

Are you going to say Logic is friendlier than PT?
http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-6.htm

pencilrocket wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:OS9 to OSX and OSX PPC to OSX Intel for instance broke a lot of songs with plug ins being upgraded instead of updated, NI etc. broke songs left and right if you didn't have saved presets that you could bounce into the upgraded version of Absynth etc.

That's the good example of the Logic is not for proffesional. No compatibility.

Logic is hugely more CPU friendly

Are you going to say Logic is friendlier than PT?
http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-6.htm

Logic and Pro Tools have cornered the "pro" market in most professional musicians minds whether you want to admit to that or not. So they set the standard for what is considered pro.

Yes, Logic beats the living piss out of Pro Tools in terms of how many plug ins you can run, it also runs at least 35% more plug ins than Live does on the same computer with the same specs. I can imagine it would at least double the plIt was pretty dammed lean when it was Windows as well, but the Mac side was always a little better, probably why they had no problem being bought by Apple, plus a couple million didn't hurt.

Machinesworking wrote: Logic and Pro Tools have cornered the "pro" market in most professional musicians minds whether you want to admit to that or not. So they set the standard for what is considered pro.

Unfortunately you can't compare PT market and Logic market. The former is for complete production studio, the latter is for pre production.

So it means the latter is for general comsumer, not for the pros who all are considering and need to work in full production studio in their work. You can't compare them. Each are tottaly different market. The price tag is the self-explanation.

but the Mac side was always a little better, probably why they had no problem being bought by Apple

Yes, I understand you couldn't read the charts.

pencil rocket wrote:.. the pros who all are considering and need to work in full production studio in their work. .

are there any of those left?

Unfortunately you can't compare PT market and Logic market. The former is for complete production studio, the latter is for pre production.
So it means the latter is for general comsumer, not for the pros who all are considering and need to work in full production studio in their work. You can't compare them. Each are tottaly different market. The price tag is the self-explanation.

Complete nonsense...

puzzlefactory wrote:

pencilrocket wrote:All? When had Logic acquired session view?

Session view is part of Abletons USP, so no, of course Logic doesn't have it. But then again Live doesnt have Logics "Environment" page.

When I said a "good all rounder" I was referring to general music production, not specific functions.

Not to mention that "session view" paradigm is no longer unique to Live with the advent of Maschine (which integrates with DAWS like Logic seamlessly) which does a few things better like clip automation.

esky wrote:Complete nonsense...

Because you are noob. It'll make sense probably, or never for you.

STRATEGY_510 wrote:Since Logic and Live have a lot of the same functionality, can someone point out what Logic has/does that Live doesn't? and also what does it do better than Live?

STRATEGY

A Tape machine shares some functionaly with Live too...

Have you ever used a DAW other than Live? if so, then you have an idea of what is different between live and other DAWs. Logic is a conventional daw and pretty good as such, but its not something that conveniently lets you play with loops/phrase in the way that way does. Its not a play/performance tool with a daw bolted on - its an all-out daw with some lip-service to loops etc, but focussing much more on decent conventionmal tracking and mixing workflow.

Not a bad tool to create in as well, but that depends how you like to create of course.

Machinesworking wrote:

garyboozy wrote:just read this...

Create Digital Music wrote:Most importantly, $30 now gets you all of the instruments and effects from Logic in MainStage, including instruments like Sculpture...
...All those instruments and effects: You also get, bundled into the package, an extensive collection of everything from guitar amps and stompboxes to the Ultrabeat drum machine to virtual instruments from analog to the unique physical-modeling Sculpture. Because MainStage supports ReWire, that means if you, say, love Ableton Live or Cubase more than Logic, but longed for some of those Apple instruments, you can now play with them in your DAW for thirty bucks without having to buy the whole Logic package. You’d just route audio straight into your DAW.

i didnt realise Main Stage had all the synths. that's all i ever really liked Logic for.

*YOINK*

Is this confirmed? Has anybody who doesn't own a previous version of Logic Pro 7 or 8 confirmed this?
If you get Sculpture, Ultrabeat and the ESX24mkII + all the other goodies from Logic then $29 is a total steal. I would hazard a guess that Logic 7, 8 or 9 installed is a requirement, but if I'm wrong then that's a hell of a deal. One caveat though, Mainstage can only act as a ReWire Master, So any third party instruments you used in a Live Set would have to be hosted in Mainstage in rewire operation. Not a deal killer for new songs, not any different than before for older songs you want to use Mainstage with. (IE you're better off using AIC and Soundflower etc.)
What would be truly awesome is if they made Mainstage able to be used as an Audio Unit inside Live etc. then for me anyway it would replace Kore.

I am guessing they all only work inside mainstage/logic as it the case with the studio 9 boxed versions - so not a useful replacement for kore. Apparently maschine is the 'replacement' for kore

Rewire might be a way to go - never tried ms with rewire though.

I do like the apple sample instrument library and the various synths are excellent simple little synths that I do sometimes miss for making basic sounds when not working in logic.

pencilrocket wrote:

Machinesworking wrote: Logic and Pro Tools have cornered the "pro" market in most professional musicians minds whether you want to admit to that or not. So they set the standard for what is considered pro.

Unfortunately you can't compare PT market and Logic market. The former is for complete production studio, the latter is for pre production.

So it means the latter is for general comsumer, not for the pros who all are considering and need to work in full production studio in their work. You can't compare them. Each are tottaly different market. The price tag is the self-explanation.

but the Mac side was always a little better, probably why they had no problem being bought by Apple

Yes, I understand you couldn't read the charts.

Jesus? what astounding buthurt! I'm truly sorry I engaged you in a friendly manner?
Pro Tools is 99% of the time a mixing and recording of bands, it's hardly ever used for composing. In no way is composing a "general consumer" activity compared to mixing. Logic is fully entrenched in the industry as a composition tool, and as a full production tool for commercials, voice overs, movie soundtracks, electronic music production and so on. Plenty of people never port any of the tracks to Pro Tools to mix down, plenty of Logic tracks go straight to the mastering house. In fact pretty much everything you comment on is shows your lack of understanding. Logic years ago entrenched itself as the most "pro" of the native DAWs, though Cubase/Nuendo and Digital Performer have their fans in the industry as well. Are you really that dense that you think "pre production" means not "pro"?

Logic 4 had far better MIDI in OS9 than it did in Windows, twice as many channels of MIDI could be addressed compared to the Windows version, it was also brutally stable in OS9. A subtle advantage, but still quite clear if you had bothered to read the specs at the time instead of blurting out your prejudices 8 years later because you think you can win an argument by going on the attack without any understanding of the subject.

You're not at all worth responding to because you simply have no logic whatsoever and are in fact a troll whether you acknowledge it or not. Absolutely nothing you contribute is based on fact but instead is based on your prejudices and lack of understanding of a particular subject, and anybody who engages with you is essentially losing time and gaining nothing in return. I feel like a chump for having continued to treat you like an equal but from now on I won't. You're simply not worth the time.

Khazul wrote: I am guessing they all only work inside mainstage/logic as it the case with the studio 9 boxed versions - so not a useful replacement for kore. Apparently maschine is the 'replacement' for kore

Rewire might be a way to go - never tried ms with rewire though.

I do like the apple sample instrument library and the various synths are excellent simple little synths that I do sometimes miss for making basic sounds when not working in logic.

The Logic embedded instruments do in fact only work in Mainstage. Not a big deal at all. My biggest use of Kore was as a live instrument host, and for tracks that I was porting between DP or Logic and Live. The main disadvantage of Mainstage this way is that it's not able to be used as an AU plug in inside Live etc. ReWire only, so it by design of rewire disables third party plug ins in Live, Logic, DP etc. The workaround is to use it as stand alone with Soundflower and AIC midi, with maybe MIDI Clock if you need sync between Live etc. and Mainstage. Again, someone really needs to update or replace rewire with a version that allows both hosts to use third party instruments.
Basically for live use, this is a great solution to issues with dozens of plug ins and instruments in a single Live Set, you can keep Live in rewire Slave mode using it for messing with audio tracks and it would remain lightning fast as you could load all your tracks to a single Live Set, or even open new sets in less than 3 seconds when you have no third party plug ins in that set.

well i must be fuckin stoopid or somit but i can never get to the bottom of the differences between studio and pro... i did finally find out but now could someone tell me: if i get just logic pro but not main stage for a while yet what would i be missing out on apart from logics own live performance set up? ie. am i missing any plugins by only having logic pro and not both?

kev herb wrote:well i must be fuckin stoopid or somit but i can never get to the bottom of the differences between studio and pro... i did finally find out but now could someone tell me: if i get just logic pro but not main stage for a while yet what would i be missing out on apart from logics own live performance set up? ie. am i missing any plugins by only having logic pro and not both?

Logic Studio was a package deal with Logic, Mainstage, Soundtrack Pro and Waveburner. Logic
Pro is the name given to Logic 'Platinum' when they included all the embedded instruments into Logic 'Pro'.
Mainstage is geared towards live performance, it excels at instrument hosting, but Live beats it in terms of remixing tracks on the fly etc. There are no plug on included in Mainstage that aren't in Logic of any real value, all the "pro" plug ins are also in Logic.
Logic Studio looks to be discontinued, Mainstage and Logic Pro are download only with the cut down Logic Express version, Sountrack Pro and Waveburner nowhere to be seen.

Compressor was also in the Studio version. Compressor and Mainstage are now seperate, Wave Burner has been discontinued. Not sure about Soundtrack Pro, though I think most of those functions are in FCP now.