Ableton Forum

Just to add to this, it's not like firewire audio cards are all of a sudden worthless? Converters will be made available and will probably be as 100% transparent as PCI and Express card to firewire cards are. Think about it, the new technologies are faster than those protocols.

For the time being it's true that that won't matter for pros because they don't change stable environment frequently. And also as you described, PCI bus method are easily accessible when in Windows environment.

But optional PCI bus method doesn't help i-toy symptom of apple. They are rather now trying to exclude those approach from their product line. I think they will add Macbook Real Pro to it to cure this symptom.

pencilrocket wrote:For the time being it's true that that won't matter for pros because they don't change stable environment frequently. And also as you described, PCI bus method are easily accessible when in Windows environment.

True

But optional PCI bus method doesn't help i-toy symptom of apple. They are rather now trying to exclude those approach from their product line. I think they will add Macbook Real Pro to it to cure this symptom.

More of your insane nonsense. As if Thunderbolt and USB 3 aren't good enough? Those are going to be the new technologies, PCI and Express cards are going to be long left behind as well. Great technologies for sure, I use an eSATA card on my Express card slot, but more blue screens and kernal panics are caused by faulty PCI and express card issues than any other protocol, because they leave Windows, OSX and the hardware wide open for mistakes to cause damage. You will always be able to build a PC with older technologies in it, but my guess is soon you won't see any laptops with express card slots, because they are a gateway to frying motherboards and tech support calls. That certainly isn't anything to deride Apple over.

I replied to your firewire argument. Dead standards are eventualy gone from default I/O. You can extend its life as long as you need if there are PCI method. Thuderbolt would be fine, if manufactures made stable/affordable converter. It doesn't matter which standards they use, for both can be run either stable or unstable. Normaly matured harwares/softwares run stable though.

pencilrocket wrote:I replied to your firewire argument.

PCI and Express cards are not the only way to convert firewire to your computer, USB 3 and Thunderbolt will all have some way to do this eventually, and like I said eSATA, Express cards and PCI cards are all going to soon be dead technology like firewire.

That is the point, there is no iToy bullshit involved in this thought. Basically you're trying to make fun of Macs without any real basis to, not anything unusual.

Don't be so worked up over this. PCI won't die. Almost of all GPU are working through it. It is skeptical that thunderbolt will replace with it as there are still no external GPU for normal users at all.

you're trying to make fun of Macs without any real basis to, not anything unusual.

Thanks for your self?introduction. PCI and firewire are sharing the same fate? Nice story I had a nice laugh.

Machinesworking wrote: Thunderbolt has $50+ cables to start....

Thunderbolt cables are active cables unlike USB, FW, Ethernet etc cables. I expect quality TB cables to cost more. And the technology is still new, prices will drop anyway.

patrick.olson86 wrote:I'm talking about clips of songs you've ripped from your CD into WAV format. Yeah it's more convenient to pay 99 cents for The Funky Drummer mp3 on iTunes... but the audio quality sucks. NO QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. For a mere 5-7 bucks you can get the entire CD and rip it as WAV format for sampling.

That's my angle.

If you care about breaks like the Funky Drummer just sample it from vinyl. No need for an optical drive hahaha

Interesting article.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/12 ... -the-water

- Thunderbolt is technologically impressive but practically problematic — without a major overhaul, it’s going nowhere.

pencilrocket wrote:Interesting article.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/12 ... -the-water

- Thunderbolt is technologically impressive but practically problematic — without a major overhaul, it’s going nowhere.

Reading the article, that so called mentioned 'major overhaul' is basically just about money/lower prices...
How's that a 'major overhaul'? 'Major changes...' blabla
And the mention of that 'theoretical peak bandwith' of USB3, theoretical indeed just like that of USB2.

I'm not defending TB or anything (the only thing I'm considering to buy that has TB as a option is an UA Apollo and it's TB option card isn't even available yet), but articles like this are just rubbish in my opinion. People who want or need it will get it (if available), those that don't have other options. Who knows, maybe UA will also sell a USB3 option card for the Apollo...

fedexnman wrote:Slap a couple of Ableton Live stickers on this and no one would know it wasn't a macbook pro !! http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... me=Gallery

How are you supposed to use the mouse with all those cables on the right side?

pencilrocket wrote: PCI won't die. Almost of all GPU are working through it. It is skeptical that thunderbolt will replace with it as there are still no external GPU for normal users at all.

PCI as an external connection to audio cards etc. will die, for towers in the case of PCs sure they won't go away for graphics cards and as a way to add the odd serial or firewire port, but as a solution for audio, and connecting to the computer without another protocol in the loop, it's time has come. UAD, and various audio cards that still use PCI are on their way out. The most obvious reason for this is the Express card VS PCI issue in terms of compatibility. Think about it, if you have a USB 3 card you can use it on a tower or laptop with no issues. Even if it took Apple forever to adopt USB 3, converters will be around for Thunderbolt, and RME for instance make a brutally effective USB 2 audio solution right now. Add to that the fact that a faulty PCI card can and has been a major issue for computer users in general, causing more damage than any other method and you will soon see no "pro" audio cards that use the internal bus like that.
I agree that Thunderbolt seems to be a bit heavy duty for most uses, great for connecting a 27" screen with firewire, USB 2 ports etc. but not that practical for basic needs. Hopefully Apple stop competing for technologies and release the next batch of laptops with USB 3 and firewire 800. Typically they will drop firewire before USB 3 comes to the laptops though.

The main advantage I see for thunderbolt is to plug External GPU and RAID on your laptop. That way you can have a cheap, thin and light laptop with integrated graphics on the go and when you come home, you dock it and get more power and speed for actual work.

How are you supposed to use the mouse with all those cables on the right side?

It's fine really. My old toshiba lappy is like that and I never had problem with the mouse. You prefer no ports? Or pay extra for each cables that you can only use 1 by 1?

Earwax69 wrote:The main advantage I see for thunderbolt is to plug External GPU and RAID on your laptop. That way you can have a cheap, thin and light laptop with integrated graphics on the go and when you come home, you dock it and get more power and speed for actual work.

How are you supposed to use the mouse with all those cables on the right side?

It's fine really. My old toshiba lappy is like that and I never had problem with the mouse. You prefer no ports? Or pay extra for each cables that you can only use 1 by 1?

i prefer my ports on the normal side, which is the left side (the only thing i use on the right side of my laptop is the video out, and only when the laptop is docked, all major usefull ports are on the left where they belong (unless you are a leftie)

I have an emotional attachment to firewire. I will be sad to see it go.
Is that weird?

Earwax69 wrote: It's fine really. My old toshiba lappy is like that and I never had problem with the mouse. You prefer no ports? Or pay extra for each cables that you can only use 1 by 1?

What Muzik 4 Machines said. Pointing device goes on the right side, everything else on the left.