Ableton Forum

Posted: **Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:24 am**

Or because PDC made their song sound bad and they can't pin down exactly why.[/quote]

+ 100000 !

arrangements are written to be on time like a perfect jingsaw , that issue may create frequencies clashes with timing fluctuations but at very subtils levels ..so you ask yourself why it sound muddy and you may, if you dont know the issue , take off more frequencies/colours ...but that the consequence not the cause ...and more, you lose some colours, energy ,depth , intensity, clarity etc...

time is a reference and a reference must be perfect because all the out of time notes - swing or groove...- i put , are referenced and put out of time relatively to this reference .

so if this reference may subtly fluctuate ...its a bit like building a house on swamps .
for me time in music is like the canvas for the painter ..a framework and an absolute reference !

in my opinion, live 8 shoud already have that improved .

Posted: **Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:01 am**

Akshara wrote:so for me live 8 shoud have already have that improved .

...and you paid for it !

You deserve to get a full working PDC for Live 8 too
and not to pay again for a (maybe)fixed version in the future !

That is what p...es me off the most !
They jump off and release a new version and leave the old one crappy as it is!
I really don't care anymore for Live9, but for a working Live 8 !

Read the manual of Live 8.0.1 and look inside.
No word of any caution when using PDC !
But they changed that in later versions.

People telling here that Ableton did know about PDC problems
and made it to be like this on purpose, are totally wrong !

Ableton never told anyone clearly that PDC isn't working fully or partially.
That would have raised doubts and wouldn't sell good this way...
....

... so they didn't know or they didn't tell!?!?
Decide what you think is worse...

Imagine that !!

We Ableton have now PDC ! Yeahhhh!!!
But..., it only works if you don't do this... or that... later on
...aaaaand...you better bounce...., like you did before PDC !!!

That would be the greatest joke of all times !!!

What they now did is that:
Hey lets release some new features and hardware to make the kids moist and forget that we still have a crap PDC ! gniihihii

Ohh..., and then let's add a audio2midi feature that keeps all drooling
who can't play a straight note or know what music theory is,
so that they think they gonna be the next new Skrillex
without to learn anything musically needed.
Babble, fart or whistle into your mike and be a star !!!
--- SOLD !!! ---

Posted: **Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:21 am**

yeah im a bit angry to have to bought live 9 in order to have eventually, probably, that pdc improved .
but if at least ableton improved it for live 9, it will be a good news .

Posted: **Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:08 am**

mholloway wrote:I have never encountered a problem with PDC while using Live *that I was aware of*. I believe I'm of the same mindset as Tarekith, who posted in a related thread:

"I feel sorry for the people who do such detailed editing that they are affected by this, but it's not something I've ever noticed or had an issue with in my workflow."

That pretty much sums it up for me, too. I never denied it as an issue for others -- obviously it is. It hasn't been for me. I've read the numerous descriptions and I see how it could cause problems, sure. That's why I started this thread, to understand the problem better, not to deny it exists.

You missed the point of that thread carelessly or intentionally. I asked him in which way he is writing automation when he does fader riding. He answered that he doesn't do that job in Live but he is doing in Logic. You know what he wanted to imply. He is too polite to write the whole story.

Posted: **Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:22 am**

theophilus wrote:actually, Live has perfect audio PDC (except for a few cases where it's impossible, loops and so forth). however, they don't even attempt to compensate automation and midi. there's really no more reason for a separate 'live' and 'producer' mode at this point; all the downsides of a 'producer' mode are already in there. they just need to bring the automation (and midi clock, and midi CCs, which afaik if you record a midi note from an external device, they already attempt to do this) aligned with the audio.

not saying it's simple... theoretically, it's not really that complicated

Still dismissing the issue with timing based plugins not polling the transport properly.

Well, no matter. Fortunately Ableton considers it important.

dom on Jan 21, 2011 wrote:In short: Live's Plugin Delay Compensation compensates the audio.

What it does not, is compensating automation or what the Live GUI is showing (moving meters etc.), just as we always stated.

Even more important for this thread: timing depending plugins like camelspace or beatrepeat poll the transport timing information from the host to work correctly in time. In Live's case, as well with some other hosts, all plugins get the same global timing and normally this is just fine, of course - but as soon as such a timing depending plugin sits behind another plugin that causes latency, it would need its own special timing information that incorporates also the latency that gets introduced before it receives its data. But as i mentioned: Live does not offer this feature yet, just as it does not offer automation compensation - and both are pretty huge points on the feature wishlist.

Therefore ninox_rufa is pretty spot on in the descriptions he posted in this thread and we also confirmed this to him via support emails months ago.
If it would have been a bug, i'm pretty sure we would have addressed it by now during the quality initiative.
But unfortunately it is not something that is broken but actually a wish for new features based on the basic PDC (a. compensating automations, b. compensating host timing information based on where the plugin sits, c. GUI compensation) which cannot be hacked together in a few hours or days.

Nevertheless, we already said we will address these feature wishes and this statement still holds true.
But as always with Ableton products - we can't make any promises or announcements regarding the timeframe for this. Sorry for this.

Original link. Whole thread is worth a read.

Posted: **Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:42 am**

dom on Jan 21, 2011 wrote:...

Januari 2011 (!) ... I really think when Live 9 comes out in Januari 2013 it should be fixed.

Posted: **Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:22 pm**

Akshara wrote:
theophilus wrote:actually, Live has perfect audio PDC (except for a few cases where it's impossible, loops and so forth). however, they don't even attempt to compensate automation and midi. there's really no more reason for a separate 'live' and 'producer' mode at this point; all the downsides of a 'producer' mode are already in there. they just need to bring the automation (and midi clock, and midi CCs, which afaik if you record a midi note from an external device, they already attempt to do this) aligned with the audio.

not saying it's simple... theoretically, it's not really that complicated
Still dismissing the issue with timing based plugins not polling the transport properly.

and that too... sorry, was throwing it in with midi clock. i guess technically it's not.

Ableton Forum

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