Audio crackling with new i7 build.

[eyeknow]

I am SO GLAD that I found this thread!

Remind me again.......did vga work, or not? CASE CLOSED.

This thread should be locked.

[Sional]

So you really think that anyone who uses a Haswell CPU will be forced to use an external graphics card to achieve satisfactory sound results? Do you think that when Intel tested the graphics capability of their latest chip they were watching Buster Keaton movies? As I stated earlier, I believe that the addition of the external VGA has masked the real problem. For example the op is using a Belkin firewire PCI card. If you check the Belkin website you will find that they show their firewire drivers being compatible with: Windows 98SE, 2000, ME, and XP (32 Bit). Microsoft rewrote the 1394 bus driver for Windows 7 to provide support for higher speeds and alternative media. So maybe the Belkin card is not ideal when fitted to a Z87 chipset motherboard and when using the onboard graphics of a Haswell CPU (I doubt Intel would have tested that configuration). The op did not state if he got crackles when using his motherboard audio chipset (Realtek ALC892), which would be interesting to know.

jbodango, when an external audio card (PCI, USB or Firewire) is fitted to a system many people disable the motherboard audio chip (a BIOS setting). In which case the operating system will be sharing the same audio device as your DAW. Older DAWs were reluctant to release the audio device to background services but modern DAWs are quite happy so you can watch a Youtube video in the middle of a mixing session without shutting your DAW down if you so wish.

Donnie you are avoiding my questions. Are you saying that a 40 euro PCIe graphics card has been developed and manufactured at a higher standard than an Intel Haswell i7 CPU? Are you also saying that integrated graphics "is garbage. It doesn't matter what the specs or performance is".

[jbodango]

jbodango, when an external audio card (PCI, USB or Firewire) is fitted to a system many people disable the motherboard audio chip (a BIOS setting). In which case the operating system will be sharing the same audio device as your DAW.

you're kidding me right? i thought the only way to disable the onboard audio chip was to change the jumpers settings on the motherboard... or null out the IRQ's in the win.ini file.

[anra]

@sional, I had crackles with onboard - but not so much as with the FW. I also tried USB 2.0 interface and it had the crackles too.

[Donnie]

Donnie you are avoiding my questions. Are you saying that a 40 euro PCIe graphics card has been developed and manufactured at a higher standard than an Intel Haswell i7 CPU? Are you also saying that integrated graphics "is garbage. It doesn't matter what the specs or performance is".

I am saying that Intel® HD Graphics 4600 is absolutely bottom of the barrel, therefore expected to perform as such. I am sorry that you cannot grasp that extremely basic concept.

Beyond that, im not quite sure what you are trying to prove here...or provide for that matter. Whatever, I guess.

[eyeknow]

It is funny. So much angst over trying to prove the unprovable.

BTW, to answer that question directly, I absolutely positively think a 40 dollar card outperforms any built in graphics. I think that it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. But please, keep on, it's quite entertaining.

[Sional]

It's funny how you guys have switched tract from reliability, development and manufacturing standards to performance. I do not deny that most late model VGA cards will outperform current IGP solutions. But I do think that these IGP devices (Haswell, Ivy Bridge, AMD A series) are more than adequate to meet the graphics demands of any DAW/VST GUI as well as HD video on any large high resolution monitor. There is a similar thread on the KVR forum which makes interesting reading. I particularly like the response that mentions nostalgia.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=386780

As to anra's crackling, particularly as it was also present with the onboard audio device, if we assume that anra does not have a faulty hardware component and accept that the addition of a VGA card is the solution to the problem then, anyone who builds a system comprising a Haswell i7 and an Asus z87-k will experience the same problem. This would imply that the Asus motherboard (specifically designed to support Haswell CPUs) has a hardware or software design problem and this was not detected when Asus tested their new board. Maybe there will be a flood of complaints.

jbodango - I apologise if my response appeared condescending, I was trying to find a polite way to say that the only way to practically implement your suggestion is to have two audio devices.

[Donnie]

We get it. You think your knowledge is more complete, and you are ready to engage in an always beneficial semantic argument to demystify it all for us. Outstanding.

However, you are missing one key factor here. You see, the problem has already been solved. Now I do understand that you don't like the way it was solved. Life is full of disappointments, sorry. Maybe next time you will have the chance to swoop in and ruin someones weekend by walking them through the erroneous process of diagnosing every obscure factor of their system to 'maybe' get it figured out. Sure, more times than not this can be avoided by a simple video card upgrade...but that is an outrage! Sionel insists that integrated graphics are plenty awesome for the task. Sionel is a rebel. A maverick. Shining turds in the face of all conventional wisdom. Integrated graphics work great, you just gotta BELIEVE!

[Sional]

Donnie you are obviously not an engineer so maybe a small analogy will help your understanding. If you had a requirement for a tank to maintain a specific quantity of liquid, but the tank had a small hole, you could add a metered replenishment system or you could plug the hole. Note that both solutions achieve the desired result.

Exactly how do you explain (in acceptable technical terms please) why it was necessary for anra to fit a dedicated VGA to his system to have crackle free audio in Live 9, whereas others can achieve this without a VGA card? It is not as if he has a low performance CPU or insufficient RAM. Is it just one of those things?

Also, if you check out tom's Hardware 2013 Graphics Card Performance Hierarchy Chart

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gam ... 107-7.html

you will see that the Intel HD4000 is not actually scraping the bottom of the barrel. Then again you don't seem to use documented facts or figures to support your argument. I suspect that your devotion to discrete graphics cards stems from the fact that you are/were a gamer, which is fair enough.

[Donnie]

Donnie you are obviously not an engineer

Actually, I am an engineer. Your little dance is amusing though.

BTW Thanks for pointing out that Intel Graphics is not 'bottom of the barrel' and comparative to graphics cards I had in my system 8+ years ago. Amazing detective work.

In the end, you are doing nothing but wasting time trying to boost yourself up like this. Nobody gives a shit how smart you think you are. People want solutions so they can write music. They don't want a technical serenade by some jackass that leads nowhere. I cant count how many times I have seen an external video card resolve these issues. It is widely observed throughout the industry. Everything else is just lip service.

[eyeknow]

I've run out of popcorn, I think I'll move on.

[Sional]

Damn of course, I had forgotten about it being widely observed throughout the industry. Thanks for clearing that up for me Donnie, I will go away now.

[fishmonkey]

in general integrated graphics is more problematic than using a discrete card, no question.

amongst other things, performance is drastically limited by heat, and you are sharing main memory channels with the CPU. that doesn't mean it can't work for some applications, but for sure it is more finicky.

[Sional]

[quote="fishmonkey"]in general integrated graphics is more problematic than using a discrete card, no question.

Anecdotal or statistical?
Jeez guys I said I would go away, so please let me.

[fishmonkey]

Anecdotal or statistical?

professional experience.

anyone that requires glitch free, high precision graphics output knows that integrated graphics tend to be problematic. some of the later integrated graphics cards are okay for not too demanding stuff, but if you have the choice a discrete card is almost always a better choice.

integrated graphics are not an advancement in graphics, they are primarily about being able to make things cheaper, not better.