"Making your own music"

[Angstrom]

Making your own music is being phased out. Loop packs and presets are the start,

Phase 1: Live 10. You license somebody else's loops & presets and you feverishly put them in sequence, you turn them off and on again, and put your name on it. Nobody listens to it.

Phase 2: Live 11. Your application downloads loops and presets and it automatically turns them off and on again in sequence. You put your name on it. You purchase listeners and likes on soundcloud. To pretend somebody listened to it.

Phase 3: Live 12. An automated application downloads loops and presets made by another application on the server. The Application's name is automatically appended to the resultant file. Another application listens to it (Ableton Audience). Humans are finally eliminated from the process.

Phase 4: Regressed humans, foraging in wasteland, learn how to make a gourd and a goat skin into a primitive instrument.

[Tarekith]

Hahaha, OK, good call! I missed that video. Was it on topic?

Probably the most on topic thing I posted this week

[H20nly]

yeah sure, and James Blake isn't a real musician if he plays a sampling synthesizer. Funny thing is if he plays an acoustic piano he is. Unless, it has MIDI. If so. he's a cheat!
Good luck with that!

the fact that he can play an acoustic piano does lend itself to the "real musician" designation no matter who is defining the term.

i never said playing a MIDI keyboard isn't music, nor did i say sampling isn't music... you're attempting to put words in my mouth. i don't have an issue with making music with any tools you want; however i won't lower a guitar player or a trumpet player's skill level and dedication to the lowest common denominator so that my sample triggering can be viewed in a more favorable light.

laughable
Must be a miraculous skill set to play Wish you were here or smoke on the water on the guitare that any 16 year old dude seems to be capable of it

no... playing Wish You Were Here at 16 isn't mind blowing. Neither is sampling the amen break and splitting it across a MIDI keyboard with Live.

but there you go. i guess it's true. it takes about the same level of skill.

yup. makes sense... i was in prison on marijuana trafficking charges when i first heard Bitter Sweet Symphony... so maybe the lyrics stuck with me in a more positive way than your take at the time.

That's a pretty good anecdote; if I reuse it ... would you sue me, or would you consider it fair use?

it's all about how you use it right? i mean if you chop it up and make it your own... those consonants and vowels could make your writing on par with the literary greats.

[H20nly]

when i sample it goes like this... cut -> paste -> move on to the next part of the song.

I'm sorry I missed this last night. It's clear from your description that your derogative words and your contempt are directed at your own personal practice of sampling other artists material (if that is from a record release or sampling library is perhaps irrelevant).

As I've already said you falsely assume that I work like you do (because I defend your use). I don't. My music may be electronic but it's not loop based. Mind you, I don't think it's wrong using samples the way you clearly do by your own admission and I have no contempt at your process. We're both music producers, that's all. As is common among Live users I would think.

Neither do I look down at Step Sequencing or Arpeggiators (I haven't used the latter though). When I see electronic live acts I prefer that those instruments are played "by hand", but in the end to me it's what is expressed that counts.

Even if I dabble at playing some "real" instruments I don't call myself a musician and if I need that kind of skill set in a track I collaborate with a "real musician". I have great admiration for all musicians usually and certainly for those I collaborate with.

well here's where you're dead fucking wrong. i know, i know... you can hardly believe that it could happen.

truth is... i don't use samples like that
i don't make music based on looping samples

shocking i know.

but i'm fairly certain the OP was doing so hence the reason the other guy didn't want to work with samples. <-- but that's just an assumption right there.

there's no sense in this discussion because you essentially just broaden your definition to make it fit your argument. that's what i was trying to say and did say that set you off. my mistake was to say anything more beyond that.

based on the opinions you have posted in this thread someone playing mp3s on an iPod is a musician. i wish them success in their musical endeavors.

now, don't mind me. i'm gonna keep striving to play my bass better. maybe i'll do a collab with my A.I. musician friends iMac & Ableton Live.

[login]

Artists are such a bunch of platonic single minded dudes.

Art is subjective, it cannot be defined in to strict limits. There is no "pure" or "ideal" that is just a bunch of subjective values.

[re:dream]

There are two things going on here

One is the public perception of what it is to either be or not be a musician. It often seems to me that in the public mind there is this notion that there is this race of godlike beings who can play instruments and who 'are musicians', versus the rest of us who are not. From this point of view, someone like me is not a musician, never mind how artfully and artistically I manipulate sound.

Another is the issue of degrees of musicianship and musical skill. As someone who can barely pick out a tune on a keyboard (though I am pretty OK on the flute, I must say), I admire and envy those who have serious keyboard skills. It seems to me that this skill involves not only manual dexterity, but also a very serviceable and useful understanding of harmony, chords, etc . Which would be damn useful.

At the same time a LOT of people I know who have been classically trained seem to be stuck in very limited places. They have learned one set of tricks, and are unable to be creative with it.

Personally I think the should-you-use-loops debate is a little boring. I tend to avoid them, because they box me in too much and I like to see what sounds I can dream up. But often times taking a premade loop and putting it through a number of schmangulators can be a lot of fun. Horses for courses, I think.

[TomViolenz]

There are two things going on here

One is the public perception of what it is to either be or not be a musician. It often seems to me that in the public mind there is this notion that there is this race of godlike beings who can play instruments and who 'are musicians', versus the rest of us who are not.

The sad part IMO is that apparently some "musicians" on these boards even share that (uninformed) public perception.

[yur2die4]

That public perception thing is kind of interesting though.


I feel like I'm on this search for a new high. You tried one drug, moved to the more hardcore one, then went off the deep end, and now you can only be satisfied by rubbing cocaine on your eyeballs.

But what About this general public? What is their criteria? It is something of an age old criteria actually, one that I mostly find boring. Simply, a performance that moves their heart in one way or another. Over-sentimentality. Something that'll make everyone in the room shut the fuck up and watch/listen. What does it take for these people? It depends. Different ratios of criteria work. A person coming from a certain point in life (sob story), a person that is 'beautiful' can easily draw attention haha, or a person with a great voice. Perhaps not a great voice, but great things to say. Or an instrument played in a relatable way. Maybe something that isn't so bleeding with talent that it alienates them.

Some really interesting criteria. It just has me pondering.

[TomViolenz]

It's just a lot of preconceptions that they will never actively question.

It's what keeps the scenes seperate.
Metal headz, don't listen to things without electric guitares.
Ravers (or whatever they are called this generation) don't listen to anything with guitares.
Rockers don't listen to anything above 120BPM
HipHopers don't either, but for different reasons.
My granma doesn't listen to anything if not a young female sings of eternal love over well worn traditionals (which are reproduced by synths and beat machines - but don't tell her that)
.
.
.
.
etc.

It's meaningles and just the way things are.

It only really gets sad when people, who make music themselves and should know better, are repeating the same stupid preconceptions and by that give them (fake) meaning in the eye of the public....

[tedlogan]

Most people are quite conservative when it comes to music. Some of the most conservative that I've met being metalheads and drumnbass dudes. Actually, now that I think about it, most people I've met are quite narrow-minded, or simply do not enjoy music outside the sphere they've grown into.

I find the broad range of music in our world far too interesting to pass up on, and dip my toes into any pool. I just try not to piss in it too.

[Fritz609]

As for the video.......Im glad to see that there are artists from genres other than hip hop defending the ART OF SAMPLING. I'm glad he mentioned ice ice baby and other poor excuses for "sample based" song. No art in simply looping someone else's $h!t.

[eyeknow]

Most people are quite conservative when it comes to music. Some of the most conservative that I've met being metalheads and drumnbass dudes. Actually, now that I think about it, most people I've met are quite narrow-minded, or simply do not enjoy music outside the sphere they've grown into.

I find the broad range of music in our world far too interesting to pass up on, and dip my toes into any pool. I just try not to piss in it too.

It's a good outlook. When I think about current (like last 15 years) the "mainstream" is NOT to my liking. But that doesn't mean they are not good at making what they do.

There are several things that are popular that DO turn me on though. Chvrches for example......

[Stromkraft]

when i sample it goes like this... cut -> paste -> move on to the next part of the song.

I'm sorry I missed this last night. It's clear from your description that your derogative words and your contempt are directed at your own personal practice of sampling other artists material (if that is from a record release or sampling library is perhaps irrelevant).

well here's where you're dead fucking wrong. i know, i know... you can hardly believe that it could happen.

truth is... i don't use samples like that
i don't make music based on looping samples

Well, good for you. So why did you pretend you did? You wrote what I quoted, indicating that's what you do.
You really jump on the trolling role far too eagerly. What's the gain in that? It just adds noise and not in a good way. Please, let's just discuss music and audio production without prejudices and hidden agendas.

[Stromkraft]

based on the opinions you have posted in this thread someone playing mp3s on an iPod is a musician. i wish them success in their musical endeavors.

And according to you anyone that takes up the bass and plays is a musician then? What I'm saying despite your deliberate misinterpretation (by your own choice) is that if a musician takes up a bass, a radio player, works on samples in a DAW, works on them in a hardware sampler or even fiddle on a string of dental floss (and probably mikes that up), it's the end result that counts. No matter what a musician uses to make music it doesn't detract from being a musician. A ham radio may not be a musical instrument for just anyone but it may be for a musician or even a person trying to be a musician in the way he approaches using it. It's not different from a bass or whatever instruments you claim to be "real".
I've even seen cassette players, DATs used on stage by a "real musicians" and it didn't mean they reused others work as they made the content played and it didn't mean they couldn't play the sound produced had they decided to. It was used to play a small role in the set reframing their music. The reasons may have been all from practical to artistical ones.

I happen to know one of the greatest drummers in Europe (IMHO) that chooses to work with samples in a DAW among many other technical tools. Obviously he plays drums and other instruments, both acoustic and electronic, too and samples that playing for further rework.
When you investigate the work and practices of this drummer and music producer and compare it to the idea, that you seem to be a promoter of, that on one hand there are "real musicians" that play "real instruments" and then there are the cheaters that are cheaters because they play or otherwise use "non musical instruments" re-appears as laughable as it really is.

So does playing a loop makes you a musician? No, but a musician can play a loop. Does playing a loop make you a musician? Of course not. Why would you even entertain that thought? Boring!

[BoddAH]

I don’t know why people can’t agree about what art truly is. It’s simple really.

Art is a means of self expression. Nothing more, nothing less. Good art resonates with people and art is increasingly artistic as the amount of self-expression increases.

Playing MP3s on an iPod is not art because it’s not self expression. It’s pushing play. Playing 3 random loops layered together isn’t art either because it’s random and not a means of self expression. Anyone could do it.

Mixing a technically perfect track, making an uninspired track in a generic music style without any creative input or playing bass guitar like a robot without feel isn’t art either, even if you’re technically skilled. It’s a trick that anyone with enough time and dedication could do. It's a skill. Skill is often a foundation of good art but being skilled at something doesn’t make you an artist.

Producing something interesting on your computer with a lot of personal creative choices and input is art, even if it’s sample based. Playing a piece of music on an instrument with feel or, even better, your own personal composition that reflects your personality and resonates with others is art.

This is what art is all about. Art is the language of the human soul.