Ableton Forum

hitherto wrote:It is amazing to me that there are people out there that say (or imply) that the U.S.A., the U.K., or Bush and Blair are at fault for these attacks.

It is just crazy!

consider yourself amazed!

there are direct and in-direct causes.

if its an in-direct cause, they are still at fault no?

Let's not forget that the primary goal of the savages that perpetrate these barbaric acts is to dissolve our civilisation by inciting us to turn against each other. Let's not make it easy for them.

my heart and support also goes out to those affected by this tragic attack EDIT, !!!EVERYDAY!!! (how the fuck did i leave that out)

yet when it happens to the westerners, the whole world stands up!!!
thats what is disstressing to me..

surely an arab life is not even worth 1/1000th of a westlife..., maybe im over estimating!

my heart is with those who are suffering.., i love palestine

I don't know if it is of any consolation to any of you in London, but I really look foward to seeing how your nation responds to this situation. Perhaps the world will learn something positive from your example.

For me Bush and Blair and company are just about the same level as the terrorists.
Bush started this entire mess after his stupid revenge on iraq for searching for the WOMD. The idiot went to Iraq with no clear vision & a bloody war of thousands of innocent lives. Years later, they are trying to change themes and ask neighboring friends to help clean up the mess they made. Bush/Blair claims it was a war on terror but the real terror started years ago (1980's) when US and allies invade and stick their nose into the Middle East (Afghanistan and Russia). Anyone claiming Al Qaeda is a war on Christianity is about the same view/mentality as Muslims feel about Bush. and his war on terror. Anyone with a brain will notice all the countries that are on the "terror hit list" are allies of the US: Spain, Australia, Italy, Japan, Demak,Poland etc.. The countries like France, Germany, Russia, China etc..have no terror threats from this organization.simple..
The real war on terror will end with the US changes its' one way vision of power and control and leave the Middle East. To fight this war properly,both sides must see the roots of the problems and solve like men. As seen here, if terror wants to be made, it is not so complex..Any person can leave a bomb or suicide ones' self easily...Just look at the problems of the Israelis..Bush thought changing the Middle East would be so easy,maybe a few months of easy tank fire, dropping bombs, killing 100's of familes by misguided missiles..Not so, this region is dead tough and has a cost of life.. as life is precious. Jeoulosy & Revenge are one of mans' main attributes. This war is just making terrorist more angry and ready to fight again..and they will by their quest with their God.

Let's not forget that the primary goal of the savages that perpetrate these
barbaric acts is to dissolve our civilisation by inciting us to turn against each
other. Let's not make it easy for them.

Lets repeat every catch phrase thrown at us.

Competition starts now......

A holiday in a Cuban "jail" for the first one to repeat 100 catch-phrases!

-Ben

LOFA wrote:I don't know if it is of any consolation to any of you in London, but I really look foward to seeing how your nation responds to this situation. Perhaps the world will learn something positive from your example.

well, I'm not in London .. where I imagine it is a bit more fraught than here (200 miles away), but the general UK publics reaction is 'what a bunch of bastards, ah well shit happens, best get on with it!'

it's pretty odd, I know we are meant to be stoic and all that, but we out-do ourselves it seems!
the general comment off people in the streeet is "oh, it's terrible that london thing isn't it, poor people. I don't know' and that's it. Back to business.

In fact I have had the sense that - everyone looked within for outrage and tearful 'why us' feelings and just didn't find any, so gave up. Everyone obviously feels sorry for the victims and their families - but that's about it. No real panic or anything, we know there are nutters in the world and theyve been saying they were going to do this for ages .. then they did it. Simple as that.

the News teams were looking for all that inner angst too, in the end it is now all 'british people, coping marvelously' that fills the telly.

our upper-lips are obviously as stiff as ever!

Although you have to take into account we are a nation of sociopaths.

Geez... I'm SO tired of hypocritical liberal bleeding-heart do-gooder bullshit!

How do you think the plastics are manufactured in your computer/synth/deck/just about everything? OIL

Who's the biggest contributor to global warming? CHINA

Why is your Behringer/M-Audio/etc stuff so cheap? CHINESE SLAVE LABOR

How can anyone bitch about these resources while using them every day? It's the fucking definition of hypocrisy!

So, you bleeding hearts... make your music with a guitar and bongo drum made from sustainable trees cut down by hand... go to work tomorrow on your bike/camel/sailboat hand-made without the benefit of oil..

Or shut the fuck up, accept the fact that you wouldn't be on this forum or using Live without continuing to contribute to the world's depletion of oil and global warming, and get on with making music.

Leave the rest to Greenpeace. (And the last I saw, they weren't using sailboats...)

Thoughts and prayers to those involved in London yesterday...

We must seek and eliminate those responsible.

Hehe. these threads always get huge when the daily show is on a hiatus

Funny...the French have always been against the intervention in Iraq, and yet French people are constantly being kidnapped in Iraq.
UN chief representative in Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello, was a Brazilian who had always said he was against the Intervention in Iraq...he was killed by a car bomb sent against the UN building in Baghdad, that was aimed at the side of the building where his office was...

How does this "the US and UK are reaping what they´ve sown" theory fit there?

Hello guys
first I want to express my solidarity to the Londoners out there, what happened was really terrible.

I quickly read through the 5 pages of this thread I something strikes me: No one mentions the fact that Great Britain and espescially "Londonstan" is welcoming scores of radical islamists to live and preach their messages of hate on their land. And Im not only talking about Chechen terrorists who recruit for their jihad against Russia, but also about countless other groups of radical extremists. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, even France openly blame Britain for providing a haven for terrorists.

Islamist groups are flourishing in London, if you let the snakes freely come in, you can expect trouble sooner or later.


Ben

Ahhhh well....here's my penny's worth......

I first found out because my mum rang me and told me she was just about to get on the tube when my step dad rang and told her about it. The Tavistock bus bomb was right near where my sister goes to uni, luckily she's on term break and in Oz on holiday. I used to work in a Jewish-American Bank in the City Mile and got off the train at Liverpool St station every day, and after 9/11 I was shitting it every time I went to work.

sorry to say I'm not in the least bit surprised as I always knew it was not a case of if but when, and without meaning to sound in any way unsympathetic to those affected I think we got off lightly. I was expecting FAR worse considering how much Tony Blair has been bending over to take Dubbya's throbbing Texan member and carrying on with this imperialist behaviour after all these years and deciding on behalf of the world when to do things like invade sovereign countries.

To think that London has suffered less deaths than madrid is quite amazing considering 9/11 was in the thousands, I definitely thought when London's attack did happen it would be closer to 9/11 than Madrid.

Dirty Bomb? Sarin? Anthrax? I even wouldnt have been surprised if someone managed to smuggle in an ex-soviet black market nuke.

Whatever the means I dont know, but I definitely expected more than 37 dead. Of course no number is tolerable but given what our ancestors have set in motion over the last half a millenium I've always been in dreaded anticipation of what the wheel of karma the has in waiting for us.

The "British"(whatever that means - anglo-saxon?) went to Ireland and fucked them over hundreds of years ago, the Scots, Welsh and Cornish even earlier, then started getting powerful and fucking over people from ALL CORNERS of the globe, the US is from the same lineage, sown from that same imperialist seed - or at least you can imagine that's how it looks to most of the world, so that's alot of bad Karma between us.

No I defiinitely never saw it as if but when, and considering the history and bloodshed our governments past and present have unleashed on the world yesterdays bombings are small fry.

Note I say our governments, most people I know dont agree with it and think Tony Blair's a wanker, but Michael Howard was an even bigger one so what can you do?

'eliminate those responsible' ?

First of all we have to ascertain WHO is responsible - directly and indirectly. But this does not answer the WHY, which always more difficult and uncomfortable.

Its not as easy as US and THEM.

claudek wrote:For me Bush and Blair and company are just about the same level as the terrorists.
Bush started this entire mess after his stupid revenge on iraq for searching for the WOMD. The idiot went to Iraq with no clear vision & a bloody war of thousands of innocent lives. Years later, they are trying to change themes and ask neighboring friends to help clean up the mess they made. Bush/Blair claims it was a war on terror but the real terror started years ago (1980's) when US and allies invade and stick their nose into the Middle East (Afghanistan and Russia). Anyone claiming Al Qaeda is a war on Christianity is about the same view/mentality as Muslims feel about Bush. and his war on terror. Anyone with a brain will notice all the countries that are on the "terror hit list" are allies of the US: Spain, Australia, Italy, Japan, Demak,Poland etc.. The countries like France, Germany, Russia, China etc..have no terror threats from this organization.simple..
The real war on terror will end with the US changes its' one way vision of power and control and leave the Middle East. To fight this war properly,both sides must see the roots of the problems and solve like men. As seen here, if terror wants to be made, it is not so complex..Any person can leave a bomb or suicide ones' self easily...Just look at the problems of the Israelis..Bush thought changing the Middle East would be so easy,maybe a few months of easy tank fire, dropping bombs, killing 100's of familes by misguided missiles..Not so, this region is dead tough and has a cost of life.. as life is precious. Jeoulosy & Revenge are one of mans' main attributes. This war is just making terrorist more angry and ready to fight again..and they will by their quest with their God.

you the nail right on the head here.

Angstrom wrote:

LOFA wrote:I don't know if it is of any consolation to any of you in London, but I really look foward to seeing how your nation responds to this situation. Perhaps the world will learn something positive from your example.

well, I'm not in London .. where I imagine it is a bit more fraught than here (200 miles away), but the general UK publics reaction is 'what a bunch of bastards, ah well shit happens, best get on with it!'

it's pretty odd, I know we are meant to be stoic and all that, but we out-do ourselves it seems!
the general comment off people in the streeet is "oh, it's terrible that london thing isn't it, poor people. I don't know' and that's it. Back to business.

In fact I have had the sense that - everyone looked within for outrage and tearful 'why us' feelings and just didn't find any, so gave up. Everyone obviously feels sorry for the victims and their families - but that's about it. No real panic or anything, we know there are nutters in the world and theyve been saying they were going to do this for ages .. then they did it. Simple as that.

the News teams were looking for all that inner angst too, in the end it is now all 'british people, coping marvelously' that fills the telly.

our upper-lips are obviously as stiff as ever!

Although you have to take into account we are a nation of sociopaths.

Quite frankly, I think we've all been waiting for it, and aren't really that surprised. We've been there before, seen much worse in the last 10 years, never mind the last 50. We've had the largest 3 cities in the country ripped apart with bombs, and let's not go into the whole WW2 thing.

Fact is, we'll just rebuild anything that get's knocked down, and carry on. OK London is quiet today, but people are on the tube, on the bus, and in the streets. There'll be no huge change in the way the people or the polititions go about things. My only surprise is that it's happened now, and not at the elections a few months ago, ala Spain.

What worries me isn't that people do this kind of stuff, it's the reasons they come up with for doing it. You hear all sorts of stuff, usually with loads of stuff about culture, and religion, and politics or economics, but it's just down to plain revenge really. Man is inherently violent to other men, esp ones who look, sound, or behave differently, or who have something we want, or who have something we don't think they should have. That pretty much encompasses everyone on the planet then.

People won't just let things be. I bet if all the people who have contributed to this thread were actually having this conversation in the same room, there would have already been a fight. We've had insults, people dragging 1000 year arguments about the crusades into the present, counter arguments, misleading quotes and plain lies. And we're just a bunch of musicians who should be making love, not war!

Humans suck friends, we got to the top by behaving like this, and we aren't going to stop any time soon. Best thing I can do is just let people fight around me and ignore, because the only other option it to join in, which I am not really here for.