did ableton crack there own software?

[Scube]

i am not saying ableton live or reason isnt worth paying for im just saying that the marketing team really should think, are we going to sell this software at a fair price for everyone or are we going to jack up the price so high that most people will only ever use a crack of it.

This is the real question. Why they don't reduce their software price? I didn't study marketing but I have a couple of ideas based on realistic vision of the World.

Point 1: Actually the price is a fundamental valuation method for everyone. You cannot back up this therory, you can tell me that it's not your way to make a choose, but this is A FACT.

Point 2: When you speak about "price reduction" you can offer us a defined price? Please tell us, for example, your right price for Live!. 100$? 10$? Which is your point of reference? It's Your salary or a Tibetan salary?

Point 3: We are speaking about international music realities and not about indispensable articles. I'm sure that you are able to survive without the last update of the best sequencing software.

Point 4: What should happen if ALL business companies (Food, softwares, dresses..) reduce their product prices? SURELY a world disaster.

My final reflections : I think that software-houses (and all others) can decide their right price AND that who has not money can decide to use a software crack. They both will take the responsability and the risks upon themself. At the end, who has money will buy it's favourite software, infact the software-houses are alive and kicking...It's our world.

Please, before posting your reply, be borne in mind if you have to change the title of this thread...for example "Do you like Economic Liberalism?"

Cheers

Antonio

[forgie]

On the whole Photoshop 'get the software in the kiddies hands' thing... back in the early nineties, my parents had Photoshop on our mac at home, and AFAIK, it was the only graphics program that could do what it did at that time. That's not to say it's always been the best, because I'm sure certain programs were better at certain periods of history. It is however an obviously successful long-term marketing strategy.

The thing is: none of this is clear cut. We are not talking about material things that require material production and manufacture here. We are living in the information age, where the second most expensive thing I bought in the last year was a piece of IP. Not something physical, but a unique combination of 1s and 0s. Property laws and IP laws were made a long time before software and digital music even existed. As could be expected, big business tries to bend the innapplicable laws of yesteryear to try and leverage maximum profit. Do we need new IP laws? New concepts of IP? I know that in my case, I pick and choose what I pay for, since by my own personal ethics, that's the most responsible thing to do.

(btw I pay for all of my music, and in the days that napster was alive, I bought the CDs of all the artists I downloaded and liked - it increased my CD consumption by a long shot)

[lola]

let me know what artists made music from stolen software...illtry to download their music for free too...im sure they dont want to get paid for their work either.

u are 100% right.

Download their music. You'll be expanding their audience.
You'll tell and show more people.... Someone will buy it.

-Ben

1 will buy it and 100.000 others get copy's, thats the way it goes sir.
Mebe if someone nicks yer salary a month u will talk different.

But ... cracks do act as marketing, there's no doubt about that. .

It would demotivate to buy software, cuz u CAN get it everyware on the net for FREE.
Gimmy one good reason to buy it?

[Angstrom]

Gimmy one good reason to buy it?

you want a good reason for buying software?
Surely you can think of one. Honest people buy the software they use, it's as simple as that.

I'm not saying 'hey cracking is good' , I'm saying there are at least some upsides. Many people on this thread have stated they started by using a crack of some software or other and then bought the app when they realised how much they used it.
Sure, there are 14year olds who have a billion cracks on their machine , but 14 year olds also do other crimes, breaking and entering is a classic one.
Yet, these delinquents generally go on to be productive and decent members of society, well as decent as anyone else.
There will always be people who never face up and realise that they should pay, they have no morals. But that's life, some percentage of people are crappy.
You can't have a perfect world, I'd love to provide it, but we haven't got one.

[djadonis206]

This is all great and fine but I've said it like 47 million times before

people on the dance floor could care less how a jam became a jam

whether you made it on a hard earned cash spent MPC 2000 xl or a cracked version of fruityloops

it's on you and your conscious - some people just don't give a fuck and continue to write music on cracked software and make a decent living

other's prefer to buy it and not chase updates, use keygens and what not

but again, at the end of the day - the label, the hot chicks on the dance floor or the dude with his shirt off high on E yelling your name when you drop THE jam could care less how the track was made

it's like debate all you want but at some point you're going to have to shut up and make music - may the hottest jam win

'daywalker'

[lola]

but again, at the end of the day - the label, the hot chicks on the dance floor or the dude with his shirt off high on E yelling your name when you drop THE jam could care less how the track was made




.

There u have the key, the labels should ask if yer stuf has been legaly produced, otherwise no release.

Back in the days, talking bout 89-93, i worked for a label, wich refused tracks been made with ilegal software, like the cubase crack for the atari.

[djadonis206]

How would anyone know if you made what you made on a cracked version of whatever - ask them for their serial number?

Cubase has the worse registration in the world - when I bought SL3 I had to send in my registration information - screw that

I sold it

seriously, if you can crack software you can fake registration information and I'd be damned if a software company gave out my information to anyone (if they asked) that's what all that privacy stuff is all about

hmmmmmmm


I was about to say 'daywalker' but the notion is fading - I fell asleep watching the GINGER episode last night and woke up with 'daywalker' stuck in my head

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Butters: That was a very informative speech, Kyle.

Kyle: Thanks Butters

Cartman: Informative if you want to die. [hops off his seat and joins Butters and Kyle] Guys, don't forget. Kyle is a daywalker. Daywalkers are half-gingers themselves. Make no mistake: ginger kids are evil. You know who was ginger? Judas. And what did Judas do? Oh, he just got Jesus killed, that's all. [moves towards the door] Look, I'm just saying what everyone else already thinks: Gingers are creepy. And one night, when you're all sleepin' in your room, the gingers are gonna getcha. They're gonna GETCHA! [points at Clyde, who jumps back.]

[lola]

How would anyone know if you made what you made on a cracked version of whatever - ask them for their serial number?




[/b]

Oh they made a visit.

[djadonis206]

that's crazy

Well I guess what ever it takes - you know I had some other thoughts about the crack issue

I forgot what they were but, oh yeah I remember

alot of dance music producers use samples - not in the sense of ripping off Whitney Houston but beat loops - beat loops someone else ripped that someone else ripped etc etc

no ones up in arms over illegal use of beats (well they are but...)

Do you remember USER (I have them all) or have you heard of a techno gig called PLAYER

anonymous jams that sample freely - and they put out their own stuff on their own labels and the way Platinum keeps them in and out of stock you know they sell!

I guess my point is - if a label wants to know if you used a crack you can tell them to fuck off and start your own label, go through WATTS, NEWS or SYNTAX and sell your own beats on your own label using illegal samples on illegal software - and guess what? If it's a jam, I'll buy it, play it and go home a happy man because I rocked it


So you can break down graphs and statistics and draw pictures and quote famous people but at the end of the day - a jam is a jam, no matter how it became a jam

I don't try to produce to make money - granted it would be nice but I do it to add something to techno culture, get respect from those I respect and hopefully play a couple more gigs a year than I normally do - depending on what route you go you can make alot more money djing then putting out singles on indie techno labels. or you can get into licensing deals, do video games, commercials and soundtracks and make tons of cash - I choose the prior


'daywalk...oh never mind'

[womoma]

idrum is only 60 euro. I think thats fair.

[lola]

that's crazy



no ones up in arms over illegal use of beats (well they are but...)



'daywalk...oh never mind'

I had to clear everything i sampled, still have to.
there was one day that i thought, fuck it, they never can spot the sample i naggled.
But they did, they is the publisher from teh artist i sampled from.
Since then, i clear again.

[at170bpm]

Why don't we just not support cracks by only
buying software? And if we can't afford a piece
of software that we want, then use the demo
until we can afford it? You can't "crack"
groceries to get them free, fuel for your car,
etc, so why should you use cracks of software?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Andrew

you know what they say - "a lock just keeps a honest man honest"

I would be out thousands of $$$ if i didnt "try before i buy".

i hate cuabse, nuendo, FL, etc....

i have a live lite 4 now, but will be upgrading to the full 5 version after i get mah income tax check!!!

[lola]

Why don't we just not support cracks by only
buying software? And if we can't afford a piece
of software that we want, then use the demo
until we can afford it? You can't "crack"
groceries to get them free, fuel for your car,
etc, so why should you use cracks of software?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Andrew

I am with u.
Funny argument people give is, that soft is expensive, and they can't afford it.
While typing that excuse argument on their big fancy mac or pc with their 20mit line.

Next day, theyll post a question like" hey witch controller should i buy in a pricerange to 900 eur."

[wilxon]

I am with u.
Funny argument people give is, that soft is expensive, and they can't afford it.
While typing that excuse argument on their big fancy mac or pc with their 20mit line.

Next day, theyll post a question like" hey witch controller should i buy in a pricerange to 900 eur."

yea,

"im thinking of getting that allen and heath mixer, would be cool, what do you reckon folks - by the way i found a new live crack, because i have no money, only a little bit, but i need foooooood, clothes and synthersizers.

so ill carry on using cracks"



This kind of attitude annoys me.

i think there is nothing wrong with try before you buy - as long as you do buy.

[djadonis206]

Crazy - alot of guys have already spent alot of money on hardware over the years and feel they already "paid" - literally their dues to the cause and refuse to buy software

but hey - it's up to the individual and their own conscious - if you can wake up in the morning and look yourself in the mirror and are ok with what you're doing - who are we to blame?

Cracked software and cracked users are just a fact of the times these days - it's fine if you don't accept it but to some degree you have to accept it

you probably have music in your record collection made with something illegal

You know - there's probably guys out there who rape women and men, download child porn and rob people but buy all their software...just a thought