The Lemur

Allison Redhead · Post by **Allison Redhead** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:13 pm

edit: error

bigbadotis · Post by **bigbadotis** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:44 pm

Something about the Lemur really appeals to you. Regardless of the genre, which is completely insignificant in this decision compared to your personal level of adventurousness, you're excited about using Lemur and want TO DO INTERESTING THINGS with it.

You will be able to do things with the Lemur that you will not be able to do with any other controller. Anybody should understand this immediately after watching somebody who knows how to use it do so for over 2 minutes.

If you've got the cash and think you have the time to really explore how to incorporate it into your workflow buy it and try it out. Sell it used and take a couple hundred dollars hit if you don't like it. Sleep easily free from gear lust afterwards.

I really think that the expense should be the only issue here (which you've said it's not). If you're excited about using a controller like the Lemur, the Lemur is the only option right now.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:07 pm

she wants to dj trance with ableton. her interest in the lemur is on the premise that it will enhance her set somehow. not so much gear lust as specific-task-accomplishment lust, or better-trance-set lust.....

thats the angle I'm coming from anyways, and the lemur isnt the answer in this respect imo. theres much better ways to both enhance her set and make available expressive control, with the same ballpark amount of money. THEN pick up a lemur when ableton supports OSC - at which stage I'm sure she will have accumulated at least half the cost of the lemur if not the full total should we have to wait til live 7, win win win

not to mention, add the early bird release of plogue bidule (70euro), www.plogue.com, to the alternative setup I've been mentioning in my past few posts (midi controller + machinedrum + revolution) and she will have plllllllllllenty of multiple CC goodness to fulfill her needs. and probably not any more or less complex then using the lemurs software - tho I'll leave that up to the people who own one.

and I repeat, she can then pick up a lemur when ableton supports osc and use all these other goodies in the mean time. the revolution and the machinedrum are both step sequencers designed for live tweaking - exactly what she wants to do, a big selling feature of these instruments is their interface/performability. No lag when yer sweeping filters with these puppies.

but whatever about my alternative, more importantly I believe the lemur is overkill for the purpose highlighted by the threadstarter....till ableton supports osc.

Jackal and Hyde · Post by **Jackal and Hyde** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:41 pm

quandry wrote:
Jackal and Hyde wrote: Well, for one thing, its because "Trance" is possibly the most simple, predictable music to beat match/mix on Earth next to house. The whole idea of *Lemur needed for Trance* to kick ass in front of a crowd is absurd to tell you the truth. (Especially using Ableton to mix) It's 'vanity' period on a trance level. If you've got Craze on 5 tables or Ableton or Final Scratch working D&B with Breaks, Hip Hop and Underground Chicago mixed with movie samples and back spinning Funk, yea... But 4x4 Trance needs "Lemur", Give me a break. It's so overkill its beyond ridiculous. The last show I did with BT (Doing a tribute Trance set) while using Live, he had a Laptop, a pile of crap Oxygen and a mouse. . . . . . . . . . . And he brought the fckn house down no prob. 1,000 kids with 2,000 hands in the air for an hour an a half. I see it as a total waste of money, but actually believing it would help a person playing trance sound/look good = 10 x's more stupid. Take the $2,200 and go to Vegas and put it on RED/ Or buy gear that will actually help you make better Trance Music... < SSL's 'Duende' comes to mind.
what is the point of criticising someone's music of choice on this thread? Why not just give useful suggestions if you have them in reguards to the lemur or keep quiet? The lemur could open up really interesting compositional and control opportunities for producers in any genre--it seems obvious that she is producing her own music not just "beat matching".

If you bothered to read past my first sentance you would have read my "suggestions". Not only did I give trance props by pointing out that BT did a tribute trance show 3 weeks ago with a mere mouse and had 1,000 kids going nuts. Then as another "suggestion" I pointed out that buying something like Duende would be $2k much better spent and followed it up and drove my point home with; Its much more important for your career to try to sound like Sasha (quality sound) than to try to look like Sasha (dumbass Lemur). If "shes producing trance" as well she'd be way better off with Duende to make her music sound pro rather than a stupid touch pad controller for $2,200 dollars Period. Hows that for "useful suggestions"? I do have 1 last "useful suggestion for the Lemur since you asked". . . Don't waste your fckn money. Especially if your trying to Produce TRANCE and only have $2k to spend. Buy something that will enhance your music instead, you'll be much better off.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:59 pm

If you got 2g's and want to make better trance a VIRUS comes to mind

or maybe you could go follow some of your favorite trance acts and listen, observe kick it and chill with them -

Lemur hot though a bit pricey and out of reach for broke ass fools like me but hey

If you got the cheddar and want one who's gonna stop you?

supster · Post by **supster** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:07 pm

Allison Redhead wrote:I am slowly being swayed away from pulling the lemur trigger. Can someone point me to the controllers on the horizon? What can we expect? What's worth waiting for?

(Also, I want to thank EVERYONE for being so open and posting- this forum is amazing!)

-Allison

this combination:
=Bitstream 3x

http://www.waveidea.com/en/products/bitstream_3x/

plus:

Monome

http://monome.org/

probably the most flexible, roadworthy combination on the market right now imo. will probably do whatever you want to throw at it, and then some. and ive looked very seriously at all kinds of solutions

the kit i just showed you is solid - have heard nothing but raves about both so far (but there are waiting lists for both, so order quick). you can get both for a bit over a grand or so.

ps: i agree with the posts about the lemur. probably not strong enough, not reliable enough, too much new tech that will probably just screw you honestly.

people that believe otherwise have probably never been in a stage situation
where the $3000 widget that was supposed to solve all your problems fucks you over in front of a crowd of people.

which is probably more than a few of the people posting on this thread that want one (honestly)

.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:13 pm

nice one supster/jackal and hyde

these are infinitely better alternatives for the task at hand

Allison Redhead · Post by **Allison Redhead** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:18 pm

Jackal and Hyde wrote:I do have 1 last "useful suggestion for the Lemur since you asked". . . Don't waste your fckn money. Especially if your trying to Produce TRANCE and only have $2k to spend. Buy something that will enhance your music instead, you'll be much better off.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else but I took your advice in the spirit it was given.

Price isn't really an issue for me here, but all your points are well taken.

Still on the fence, we'll see.

-Allison

bigbadotis · Post by **bigbadotis** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:17 pm

this is all I'm saying:

1. The Lemur is completely different than any other controller on the market.
2. If something about its interface appeals to you, there very well could be a good reason for this, so try it out.

I'll add that there are a lot of excellent alternatives suggested in this thread as well, which I think was probably part of the point for starting the thread in the first place. But I think that saying that the Lemur is infinitely overkill is a statement that is overkill itself.

I'll also add that I've never used a Lemur outside of Cycling 74 demos, never thought about purchasing one but still have a lot of respect for it being the very unique device that it is. There is a lot of (to a degree) comparing apples to oranges in this thread; remember there's always the chance that you might just prefer the way apples taste regardless of their vitamin content or cost. We are talking about making music and what inspires someone to be creative does not neccessarily have a "rational" foundation.

So again, my opinion is that the Lemur is different and is worth trying out. I am 100% positive that anybody who completely disagrees with this was born in August in the southern hemisphere.

Allison Redhead · Post by **Allison Redhead** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:39 pm

bigbadotis wrote:I am 100% positive that anybody who completely disagrees with this was born in August in the southern hemisphere.

You never told me what this means.

supster · Post by **supster** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:59 pm

bigbadotis wrote: the Lemur is different and is worth trying out. I am 100% positive that anybody who completely disagrees with this was born in August in the southern hemisphere.

hey, how did you know

ok thats freaky

.

Hedroom · Post by **Hedroom** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:35 pm

supster wrote:
people that believe otherwise have probably never been in a stage situation
where the $3000 widget that was supposed to solve all your problems fucks you over in front of a crowd of people.

My Moog Voyager once fucked me over on stage in front of lots of people and that was the last thing I expected to!

So far the lemur's been pretty well behaved.

I like it as it gives me much more power and control than anything else I've used to control my laptop. I do sometimes wonder how often the people giving advice on forums have actually used the device in question though

supster · Post by **supster** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:56 pm

Splashmas wrote: I do sometimes wonder how often the people giving advice on forums have actually used the device in question though

this is true. glad its working for you so far

i do think if i bought one, went through the learning curve to get my head around it, set it up a working config, practice, and go out to play with it

.. and it didnt do something really unexpected and wierd, or outright disasterous, or have some major bug that was always biting me in the ass, or have at least one massive breakdown within the first 6 or 8 months

... it would be the first piece of brand new technology i have ever owned that didnt. of any kind. computer/music/automotive/whatever (macbook pro AHEM)

im not exaggerating, i mean that. in all seriousness thats the reason why im giving the advice i am. and i think its really solid advice (your mileage may vary)

but in general I try to follow it myself

,

Hedroom · Post by **Hedroom** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:07 pm

Hehe. I feel your pain and know exactly where you're coming from!

axou · Post by **axou** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:02 pm

Machinate wrote:
buzzcock wrote:
Splashmas wrote: It's certainly not an automapping works straight-out-of-the-box kind of machine.
But it could be. Someone who knows how needs to reverse engineer Novations Automap protocol and feed it into the Jazz Editor. How cool would that be?
afaik the Lemur can't display text coming over sysex, though ,so half the coolness is gone right there.

Can someone confirm this?

The new MackieDisplay object coming in v1.5 can display text transferred over sysEx using the mackie control protocol.
Other protocols for transferring text will be added if there's demand.

--
Axel
JazzMutant