Difference between Sampler and Simpler - other than the $200

dr.wackler · Post by **dr.wackler** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:11 pm

forge wrote:yes you're right

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:23 pm

dr.wackler wrote: Is this the way it's done, or does Sampler have a true granular algorithm, so that I can just drop a clip from the session view to it, set it to timestretch-mode and it would play back at the same speed as it did in session view?

I'd be a lot more interested in Sampler if it had the complex mode timestretching algorithm available for this. Ableton's got one of the best stretch algorithms in the business - too bad we can't use it for sound design in the Sampler. That would definitely make it more of a threat to Kontakt.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:34 pm

kuniklo wrote:
dr.wackler wrote: Is this the way it's done, or does Sampler have a true granular algorithm, so that I can just drop a clip from the session view to it, set it to timestretch-mode and it would play back at the same speed as it did in session view?
I'd be a lot more interested in Sampler if it had the complex mode timestretching algorithm available for this. Ableton's got one of the best stretch algorithms in the business - too bad we can't use it for sound design in the Sampler. That would definitely make it more of a threat to Kontakt.

heya. what i do is apply complex warp to my sample by bringing it in as an audio clip. turn on complex warp, set the tempo to what i want, then freeze, then flatten - and lastly drag it into Sampler.

it would be nice to have Complex actually in Sampler, but this has been working for me quite well.

Zerobae · Post by **Zerobae** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:34 pm

I'm a bit disappointed, too. I've had no sophisticated software sampler yet and given the fun Simpler is to use, I was too happy to find out that Ableton built one. Shame it doesn't use their own timestretching... I'll eventually buy Sampler anyway as I'm sure one of the first updates really has to provide it with timestretching.

Zerobae · Post by **Zerobae** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:37 pm

AdamJay wrote:
kuniklo wrote:
dr.wackler wrote: Is this the way it's done, or does Sampler have a true granular algorithm, so that I can just drop a clip from the session view to it, set it to timestretch-mode and it would play back at the same speed as it did in session view?
I'd be a lot more interested in Sampler if it had the complex mode timestretching algorithm available for this. Ableton's got one of the best stretch algorithms in the business - too bad we can't use it for sound design in the Sampler. That would definitely make it more of a threat to Kontakt.
heya. what i do is apply complex warp to my sample by bringing it in as an audio clip. turn on complex warp, set the tempo to what i want, then freeze, then flatten - and lastly drag it into Sampler.

it would be nice to have Complex actually in Sampler, but this has been working for me quite well.

Yeah, but this way you can't for instance play chords with every voice having the same "groove signature" (don't know if that's a word), right?

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:37 pm

AdamJay wrote: heya. what i do is apply complex warp to my sample by bringing it in as an audio clip. turn on complex warp, set the tempo to what i want, then freeze, then flatten - and lastly drag it into Sampler.

it would be nice to have Complex actually in Sampler, but this has been working for me quite well.

One of the coolest things to do in Kontakt is load up a sample, switch on one of the granular timestretching modes, then modulate the time and grain parameters with controls or lfos/envelopes. If the timestretch params were available as realtime controls like this in Sampler it would be killer.

jamesp · Post by **jamesp** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:00 pm

"Sampler includes the important features you would expect from a sampling instrument."

Exactly, these are features I would've expected as an upgrade to Simpler.

The point about Video support being the "real" new instrument resonates with me, too. I'm a little bit put-off by this marketing decision, but I'll vote with my wallet when the time comes.

Still, I'm looking forward to the demo/beta phase. Any chance of us hearing some preview clips from the EIC? Keys, brass, strings and such?

rsagevik · Post by **rsagevik** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:25 pm

Why this constant complaining when the updates of Live comes?
Because Ableton wants to make money from developing software?

Ok.. so maybe some of the new features wont be just what I wanted
them to be, but I know for sure what they will be... working.
and they will probably be working better with Live and be more tightly
integrated with Live than any other vendors plugs, fx and synths/samplers,
will be with their software.
..and they will be suited for LIVE use. ..and probably for studio use as well.

I`ll just shut up and continue enjoying my Live 5 software, upgrade to Live 6,
when it comes and still live happily ever after with new useful, stable, easy to use features.

Not happy with things, you could always crawl back to whatever software rock
you crawled out from.

r.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:28 pm

kuniklo wrote:One of the coolest things to do in Kontakt is load up a sample, switch on one of the granular timestretching modes, then modulate the time and grain parameters with controls or lfos/envelopes. If the timestretch params were available as realtime controls like this in Sampler it would be killer.

You can go a lot deeper working with short loops and offsetting the loop start with a modulator - Doing timestretches and tweaking them is like Sampler 101;)

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:22 am

jamesp wrote:"Sampler includes the important features you would expect from a sampling instrument."

Exactly, these are features I would've expected as an upgrade to Simpler.

The point about Video support being the "real" new instrument resonates with me, too. I'm a little bit put-off by this marketing decision, but I'll vote with my wallet when the time comes.

Still, I'm looking forward to the demo/beta phase. Any chance of us hearing some preview clips from the EIC? Keys, brass, strings and such?

I'm not really sure what "marketing decision" this is people keep mentioning - video keeps getting mentioned as the big feature that somehow diverted resources from other things - I've even read someone say video should be a paid thing more than sampler

But the video plug-in is very basic - it works well and has a unique feature with the warping and tempo mapping, but it is certainly nowhere near as complicateed and in depth as sampler - not the same thing by a long way

anyway, I think alot of the campers agree with me in thinking we should ease off getting involved in some of these debates now because until you've tried these things there's not alot of point in trying to argue the pros and cons

I'm more than happy to answer real questions, but as for debating the point and marketing decisions etc it's really pointless, and it amazes me how many conclusions ppl are jumping to without actually having tried them

deva · Post by **deva** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:16 am

kuniklo wrote:
AdamJay wrote: heya. what i do is apply complex warp to my sample by bringing it in as an audio clip. turn on complex warp, set the tempo to what i want, then freeze, then flatten - and lastly drag it into Sampler.

it would be nice to have Complex actually in Sampler, but this has been working for me quite well.
One of the coolest things to do in Kontakt is load up a sample, switch on one of the granular timestretching modes, then modulate the time and grain parameters with controls or lfos/envelopes. If the timestretch params were available as realtime controls like this in Sampler it would be killer.

That may be my favorite thing in Kontakt. besides lfos/envelopes I also use my X/Y pad. If this is available in Sampler, along with the drag-n-drop, I'd sure be enticed. I'm looking forward to trying it

You know, it is possible this is the performance sampler you were looking for.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:21 am

Machinate wrote:
kuniklo wrote:One of the coolest things to do in Kontakt is load up a sample, switch on one of the granular timestretching modes, then modulate the time and grain parameters with controls or lfos/envelopes. If the timestretch params were available as realtime controls like this in Sampler it would be killer.
You can go a lot deeper working with short loops and offsetting the loop start with a modulator - Doing timestretches and tweaking them is like Sampler 101;)

If that's true then Sampler might find a way into my sets after all.

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:22 am

But the video plug-in is very basic - it works well and has a unique feature
with the warping and tempo mapping, but it is certainly nowhere near as
complicateed and in depth as sampler - not the same thing by a long way

It's basic "now". Watch it grow into a big wart after a limited number of
users beg and beg for it to be expanded instead of just buying dedicated
video software.

-Ben

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:33 am

MrYellow wrote:
But the video plug-in is very basic - it works well and has a unique feature
with the warping and tempo mapping, but it is certainly nowhere near as
complicateed and in depth as sampler - not the same thing by a long way
It's basic "now". Watch it grow into a big wart after a limited number of
users beg and beg for it to be expanded instead of just buying dedicated
video software.

-Ben

what's your point? so sampler is a deep and powerful new instrument now but it should be free but because one day in the future video may or may not be more in depth and powerful people should pay for it now?

sorry, i dont follow

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:46 am

Just saying if anything is to pay for the development of video features that
no-one is really requesting.... Then it should be the video features.... If
anything is a separate product that deserves a separate dev team and a
separate budget then it's video..... Live is audio software not video software.

I just wanna pay for Live development, I want it better, I don't want addon
products, video, or new directions.... I want a LIVE INSTRUMENT, without any
bells or whistles, with the whole package being one all inclusive price.

As it stands now the video features are almost useless to anyone, no
timecode, no editing features, only supports shitty quicktime, etc.

I'd hate to spend $200 on Sampler only to discover it's funded Live7 as
largely expanded video features I don't need or want. That's what video
software is for.

Don't worry I'm not being totally unreasonable, I do understand their
choice, just don't agree with it.... I'll get over it shortly, just want the point
heard before the upgrade bundle pricing is announced.

-Ben