Microsoft Vista? No Thanks.

shaneblyth · Post by **shaneblyth** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:39 pm

The bottom line is anyone who is doing music for a living and goes and buys a New OS when it comes out has a low IQ .. Vista will be no different. The experts are saying that it is not ready yet for prime time and these are people who make their living from MS OS and MS loves them..
Still as I said the rule has always been the same if it is a new OS or new Hardware dont ever buy the first revision. Be it a Macbook or Vista ot Leopard.. hangabout for a while
end of discussion.. Heck Vista has not even been released yet..

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:08 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Imagine if M$ and Apple didn't exist, and all that knowledge was used to code Linux. You would easily have the leanest system with a stable driver set up for Live. All Ableton would do is recommend certain desktop environments, or create their own. Doesn't sound bad to me at all.

Nice scenario, if only.

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:35 pm

Machinesworking wrote:As a side note, I sure as hell would complain, and I would jump ship, love Live, but I'm slowly getting rid of my addiction to software that uses dongles or PACE.

Damn. So how's your software search coming... And if you don't mind my asking, why do PACE and dongles annoy you?

Machinesworking wrote: Imagine if M$ and Apple didn't exist, and all that knowledge was used to code Linux. You would easily have the leanest system with a stable driver set up for Live. All Ableton would do is recommend certain desktop environments, or create their own. Doesn't sound bad to me at all.

Heh, if only that were possible, it sure would be nice!

Allison Redhead wrote: I think you miss the point. Vista can, according to your license with Microsoft, suddenly turn off mp3 support (play, create, even see in the file system). Or your .mov (Quicktime) support. Or...

Well, I think I understand it. It says to me that Sony Music can tell Microsoft that they don't want Vista to be able to play legally downloaded MP3s if the files aren't attached to WDRM licenses. I do understand this, and it's retarded. However, the blame lies with the copyright owner being overly restrictive with their licensing.

Also, if you read the entire text of the license, it says "If the software fails to protect the content, content owners may ask Microsoft to revoke the software's ability to use WDRM to play or copy protected content. Revocation does not affect other content. When you download licenses for protected content, you agree that Microsoft may include a revocation list with the licenses. Content owners may require you to upgrade WDRM to access their content......."

All that says to me is that you may not be able to play certain content without having special WDRM licenses, and that they are available for upgrade. Also, it says "revocation does not affect other content", which says to me that the only content that is referred to in this section of the EULA is content with a DRM license included. The solution? Make your own MP3s or download them illegally!

---

OK Microsoft is officially being retarded with Vista licensing. The weird DRM stuff that I don't fully understand pales in comparison to this:
http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/193300234

Grr. The obvious solution to this issue is to create a backup point so you don't have to actually reinstall the OS, but that would still suck if you made made hardware changes, and your machine ID changed. I cant count how many times I've installed my copy of XP, and how many times I performed major upgrades to my computer back when I used PCs. Probably at least a hundred.

(Also, someone posted about Creative not allowing radio or internet radio or whatever. This is because Creative is a shitty company that makes shitty products, and you shouldn't be buying from them anyway. Heh heh heh!)

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:04 am

the_planet wrote:Imagine a world where the only OSes were open source, and nobody profitted from their coding. It would be a configuration nightmare (like Linux is), compared to the easy-breezy of Windows and OSX, and I guarantee computer hardware would be much, much more expensive because manufacturers would have to make their hardware work with a wider range of OSes.

You should try a BSD, particularly Open. It feels much more coherent which is where Linux tends to fail, IMHO, and it installs packages with 'sane defaults'... I've got an OpenBSD system on my laptop and I haven't configured much of anything. I just installed it from the ports tree and launched the apps. It maybe wasn't quite as easy as installing OSX, but then it gives me choices I just don't have on OSX, or Windows for that matter.

I have to say, though, that I think you're mistaking 'easy configuration' for 'what you're used to'... I don't find a Linux/BSD desktop environment difficult to set up at all, most of it's automated these days. For Linux, you just need to find the right distro.

And if hardware manufacturers made open source drivers there'd be next to no issues with support, and you'd find that reliability would go up (plus you wouldn't ever be forced to "upgrade" your soundcard cos M-Audio couldn't be fucked to upgrade the drivers anymore...).

Machinesworking wrote:Imagine if M$ and Apple didn't exist, and all that knowledge was used to code Linux. You would easily have the leanest system with a stable driver set up for Live. All Ableton would do is recommend certain desktop environments, or create their own. Doesn't sound bad to me at all.

Hm. Well. Yeah. Nah. Live should be ported to Haiku, not Linux. Haiku is a BeOS rewrite. BeOS had >2ms audio latency on a dual 66 MHz box over ten years ago. It could play more than a handful of movie clips at the same time whilst rendering a spinning OpenGL tea pot and still provide a responsive desktop... back when Windows 95 was still in beta. That's the system we want, not something hasn't been rethought since the 70's...

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:20 am

noisetonepause wrote: You should try a BSD, particularly Open. It feels much more coherent which is where Linux tends to fail, IMHO, and it installs packages with 'sane defaults'... I've got an OpenBSD system on my laptop and I haven't configured much of anything. I just installed it from the ports tree and launched the apps. It maybe wasn't quite as easy as installing OSX, but then it gives me choices I just don't have on OSX, or Windows for that matter.

I have to say, though, that I think you're mistaking 'easy configuration' for 'what you're used to'... I don't find a Linux/BSD desktop environment difficult to set up at all, most of it's automated these days. For Linux, you just need to find the right distro.

And if hardware manufacturers made open source drivers there'd be next to no issues with support, and you'd find that reliability would go up (plus you wouldn't ever be forced to "upgrade" your soundcard cos M-Audio couldn't be fucked to upgrade the drivers anymore...)

I'd love to try BSD. Honestly! I'd really prefer to use a free OS with lots of fun options and support and stuff. But it had better be damn easy to configure or I'm going to turn the computer off and drink beer instead. I'm really goddamn nerdy, but I still want something simple.

The whole reason I ditched PCs was for OSX. I got tired spending more time fixing problems with XP and screwing around with hardware that didn't play nicely together. I went Apple because of the fact that the hardware and software that works for OSX is limited. I know it's kind of a lazy reason, but I'd really much rather spend my time working with music than hoping that my video card drivers don't conflict with the latest XP point release. Granted, OSX does have it's issues, but not even close to the time I wasted with XP problems.

But hell, I'll DL BSD and give it go. I've got an extra PC lying around here. I don't expect it to replace my main computer, because it can't run Live. Heh heh...

veggieryan · Post by **veggieryan** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:11 am

sweetjesus wrote:
huffcw wrote:OSX is a resource hungry OS and so is Vista (and even XP uses more resources than I would prefer). It would be great to skip the OS altogether and just boot directly to Live. That way all of the horsepower of my CPU and RAM could be dedicated to doing one thing. Or, if someone could create a Music OS that is setup to be compatible with all of the audio standards, but is very resource efficient with rock solid stabilty - that would be great.

Muse Research Receptor is just one step away. They just need to add the ability to run Live directly from the box instead of just plugins. That would convince me to get one for sure.

this should also help a bit:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=utility

That utility is AWESOME... great for making your computer a live appliance and actually gives noticable improvement in performance in xp. also shows the flexibility of windows and the breadth of available software. I used to use it when i ran xp for performances and jams... now with vista I find it gives no noticable improvement which shows how efficient vista is.

to the guy who said I was wasting 700mb of ram on vista aero graphics(its actually 50-90mb).... ( the "frosted" color transparent windows are seriously nice to look at....)
... do me a favor... go into your activity monitor and tell me just how insanely bloated your virtual memory page file is.. mine was 11+gigs on my macbook pro.. ludicrous! on xp and vista its never more than twice the ram... usually 3-4 gigs... osx is really terrible in its use and management of memory due to its wacked out mach kernel.. google it.. its why no one uses osx to run web servers.

hmmm....
ryan.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:23 am

veggieryan wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:
huffcw wrote:OSX is a resource hungry OS and so is Vista (and even XP uses more resources than I would prefer). It would be great to skip the OS altogether and just boot directly to Live. That way all of the horsepower of my CPU and RAM could be dedicated to doing one thing. Or, if someone could create a Music OS that is setup to be compatible with all of the audio standards, but is very resource efficient with rock solid stabilty - that would be great.

Muse Research Receptor is just one step away. They just need to add the ability to run Live directly from the box instead of just plugins. That would convince me to get one for sure.

this should also help a bit:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=utility
That utility is AWESOME... great for making your computer a live appliance and actually gives noticable improvement in performance in xp. also shows the flexibility of windows and the breadth of available software. I used to use it when i ran xp for performances and jams... now with vista I find it gives no noticable improvement which shows how efficient vista is.

to the guy who said I was wasting 700mb of ram on vista aero graphics(its actually 50-90mb).... ( the "frosted" color transparent windows are seriously nice to look at....)
... do me a favor... go into your activity monitor and tell me just how insanely bloated your virtual memory page file is.. mine was 11+gigs on my macbook pro.. ludicrous! on xp and vista its never more than twice the ram... usually 3-4 gigs... osx is really terrible in its use and management of memory due to its wacked out mach kernel.. google it.. its why no one uses osx to run web servers.

hmmm....
ryan.

SJ - did you ever update this utility like you were going to?

I never found it that much of an improvement because it didnt actually stop any services loading, it just stopped the windows shell which didnt use much any way

I tested it pretty well because I wanted it to work, and I even used it Live - but I dont think it really improved performance, it just removed distractions!

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:46 am

the_planet wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:As a side note, I sure as hell would complain, and I would jump ship, love Live, but I'm slowly getting rid of my addiction to software that uses dongles or PACE.
Damn. So how's your software search coming... And if you don't mind my asking, why do PACE and dongles annoy you?

Dongles annoy me because I use a half ton of MIDI devices with Live, I tend to play Live like an instrument, and anything that needlessly hogs USB resources, or is easily stolen at gigs, is a PITA. PACE, the company is responsible for numerous problems on plenty of people's systems. The protection has resulted in instability issues in the past, and frankly, I'm personally not interested in copy protection that hinders my system in any way shape or form. At the moment I own two pieces of software that require these tactics for copy protection, and I'm slowly weaning myself off of them.

There are plenty of smaller, really decent companies that make really great software that doesn't use this crap, even NI use challenge response basically, and I prefer it immensely to wondering whether my issues with stability in Logic and Live are the result of Pluggo requiring PACE now..