When my arrange view looks like this...
I don't have anything to offer here, other than that I have been battling this problem for years as well. I work in much the same way, and end up with thousands of tiny edits, and Live chokes on zoom. From my experience it sure seems like a graphical problem, not audio related. The problem persists whether audio is playing or not....
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noisetonepause
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From your description it's definitely graphics related (freeze doesn't change the graphics; if anything it makes it worse as it has to overlay the blue colour)... the fact that audio is unaffected is actually a tribute to the good design of Live, I'd think.Tarekith wrote:Isn't that what freeze does though? I froze ALL audio tracks and no improvement.
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
I still think it's a problem with the way Live handles waveform drawing and individual clip display - something which doesn't change when freezing.
Tarekith, I know this isn't what you are looking for, but could you try consolidating the tracks into full stems? Just as a test, really.
Tarekith, I know this isn't what you are looking for, but could you try consolidating the tracks into full stems? Just as a test, really.
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.
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noisetonepause
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- Location: Sticks and stones
I'd think that there is no caching going on: it sounds plausible that Live is redrawing the waveforms for each individual clip (which it might have to, with warp marker settings, volume, etc., affecting the waveform), causing a slow down as that is a LOT of waveforms to redraw... and drawing a waveform isn't as easy as it looks, I don't think.
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
Since there has been no official comment on this topic (for years), we can only conjecture. Along those lines, the drawing of waveforms only occurs once. In Sonar, Cubase, and in Live's ASD files, the waveform is stored. Live can manipulate millions of bits at a time, so I can't see how drawing waveforms affects the graphics performance. It's quite a mystery.
Come on Abes, give us a clue here. What gives?
Come on Abes, give us a clue here. What gives?
I agree that we can try different tests to see what might be the cause. What I'm trying to say is that usually the Abes tend to do a post and give good explanations. Like the Live audio engine discussion, and other nuggests, straight from the Henke brain. I'd love to hear an official explanation as to why other DAWs can be smooth with their graphics engine while Live can still lag. Of course, we're giving credit where it's due - things have improved significantly since v5.Machinate wrote:No, not at all - look a few posts up, I suggested quite a simple test: Select the whole track and consolidate, to see how that affects performance.nebulae wrote:Since there has been no official comment on this topic (for years), we can only conjecture.
Pardon me if this has already been suggested...
Tarekith: how large would that set be if packed? Would you be willing to let other people bring up the set on their hardware (I'm thinking PCs with hot graphics cards especially) to see if they have the same problem? That might give a data point on whether the issue is more CPU architecture or Live design...
Small point of disagreement here...I have been producing music for about 15 years. When I used to work on 4-tracks and analog machines, music was almost entirely auditory - I didn't even care that much about the peak meters. Since the age of the DAW, I think music production has become a lot more visual. Colors, color-coding, waveforms, peaks, and metering are all absolutely critical. The more you see, the better you can produce. The ball is in the Abes' court to fix this issue.yourmom wrote:but whatever. music is auditory. not visual.
... well no fucking shit on that point. couldn't agree with you more. im talking strictly about stutter edits. if he renders the stutter edits to one solid waveform that will not affect his ability to further edit the track. or it will.. but more positively than negatively...nebulae wrote:Small point of disagreement here...I have been producing music for about 15 years. When I used to work on 4-tracks and analog machines, music was almost entirely auditory - I didn't even care that much about the peak meters. Since the age of the DAW, I think music production has become a lot more visual. Colors, color-coding, waveforms, peaks, and metering are all absolutely critical. The more you see, the better you can produce. This issue is in the Abes' court.yourmom wrote:but whatever. music is auditory. not visual.
when someone listens to his track nobody is going to SEE the stutter edits.... that was what i was trying to say. as an artform the end product is not visual. nobody is going to SEE his beautiful stutter edits.