Waves piracy lawsuit blues - don't get $$$CREWED

[jamester]

You guys are the ones doing him in prematurely.

Waves said they'll see him in court. If they don't have a case against him, they'll lose and he can countersue for all costs imposed, plus damages.

I still say Waves can't take him to court unless they have a solid case against him. And if they do, then this guy fucked up and now he's paying for it.

There's nothing to settle out of court, so saying "90% of these cases never see a courtroom" means nothing. Waves said "there's nothing more to say, we'll see you in court." Doesn't sound like they even want an out-of-court settlement...

Yes it sucks that he has to get a lawyer and build a defense, but again I maintain that Waves wouldn't even be doing this if they didn't have a case against him. Hearsay and he said/she said won't stand up in court, and the case will be thrown out; if he's truly innocent (and can prove it), he should come out the victor - legally, morally and financially.

I had to go to court a couple years ago after totalling my car. A cop had given me a $300 ticket for reckless driving, even though he didn't see the accident. He showed up with the towtruck, and was looking to beef up his fines quota. I simply told the judge that the cop (state trooper actually) wasn't at the scene and didn't witness the accident, and that I was NOT driving recklessly. The judge looked at the cop and asked, "Can you prove reckless driving?" The cop said no, and the case was thrown out.

Waves either has proof that will hold up in a court of law, or they do not. If they do, then your boy fucked up. If not, he should look forward to his day in court, and countersue for all legal fees plus damages.

That's how it works.

[Hillary Clinton]

You guys are the ones doing him in prematurely.

Waves said they'll see him in court. If they don't have a case against him, they'll lose and he can countersue for all costs imposed, plus damages.

I still say Waves can't take him to court unless they have a solid case against him. And if they do, then this guy fucked up and now he's paying for it.

There's nothing to settle out of court, so saying "90% of these cases never see a courtroom" means nothing. Waves said "there's nothing more to say, we'll see you in court." Doesn't sound like they even want an out-of-court settlement...

Yes it sucks that he has to get a lawyer and build a defense, but again I maintain that Waves wouldn't even be doing this if they didn't have a case against him. Hearsay and he said/she said won't stand up in court, and the case will be thrown out; if he's truly innocent (and can prove it), he should come out the victor - legally, morally and financially.

I had to go to court a couple years ago after totalling my car. A cop had given me a $300 ticket for reckless driving, even though he didn't see the accident. He showed up with the towtruck, and was looking to beef up his fines quota. I simply told the judge that the cop (state trooper actually) wasn't at the scene and didn't witness the accident, and that I was NOT driving recklessly. The judge looked at the cop and asked, "Can you prove reckless driving?" The cop said no, and the case was thrown out.

Waves either has proof that will hold up in a court of law, or they do not. If they do, then your boy fucked up. If not, he should look forward to his day in court, and countersue for all legal fees plus damages.

That's how it works.

Comparing a civil suit to a traffic traffic ticket?

What a joke.

Good news is this is all bad press for them and I am certain that the cost of this in bad publcity is well beyond the cost of the software.

[leedsquietman]

90% of cases never see a courtroom - that's because the majority of these cases are settled out of court (well probably 30% or so are dropped but the majority settled).

Settling is mostly what lawyers want. Of course, Waves are not going to say to the guy right away 'well, give us 2 grand and scrub the software and we'll be A1 OK', their legal advisers are in a negotiation and want to get the quickest way and least risky way to get substantial if not top dollar money and settling does that and they'll push to the max any damages claims before settling for a fraction of it.

Hell in ths USA (and other countries but the USA is such a litigious society) there are manipulative lawyers who threaten lawsuits about any old crap any day just to get money by settling out of court. But they don't tell the people they're suing 'we want to settle out of court' on the subpoenas etc, that would be like showing someone your poker hand before raising the ante....

[jamester]

Comparing a civil suit to a traffic traffic ticket?

What a joke.

All those points, and that's what you comment on? Joke's on you.


Leedsquietman:
Good point, and very true.

However, if this guy truly maintains that he can prove his innocence, he should not take any bait to settle and demand Waves take him to court. If Waves doesn't have a real case, they won't see it through and will have to drop it. Dropped cases are not uncommon, especially when they're just bullying to try to get some money. As you said, the US is a very litigous society, which means tons of cases get dropped all the time since the threat of a lawsuit is widely used as a scare tactic.

Now, if this guy isn't innocent and knows Waves does have a solid case against him, then he should probably settle out of court if he can, since it'll be way cheaper for him overall. But if that's the case, then dude shouldn't bitch about getting busted. It's one or the other; this thread was posted with the premise that the guy had only trial versions of Waves stuff, and that he could prove he's never used Waves stuff in his studio commercially.

If that's truly the case the guy should stand up for himself, get a lawyer and get his case together, and tell Waves to fuck off and take him to court if they want, where he will bring a countersuit for compensatory damages. The evidence has to be beyond circumstantial for Waves; if they don't have that, I doubt they'll take him to court.

[Hillary Clinton]

Comparing a civil suit to a traffic traffic ticket?

What a joke.

All those points, and that's what you comment on? Joke's on you.


Leedsquietman:
Good point, and very true.

However, if this guy truly maintains that he can prove his innocence, he should not take any bait to settle and demand Waves take him to court. If Waves doesn't have a real case, they won't see it through and will have to drop it. Dropped cases are not uncommon, especially when they're just bullying to try to get some money. As you said, the US is a very litigous society, which means tons of cases get dropped all the time since the threat of a lawsuit is widely used as a scare tactic.

Now, if this guy isn't innocent and knows Waves does have a solid case against him, then he should probably settle out of court if he can, since it'll be way cheaper for him overall. But if that's the case, then dude shouldn't bitch about getting busted. It's one or the other; this thread was posted with the premise that the guy had only trial versions of Waves stuff, and that he could prove he's never used Waves stuff in his studio commercially.

If that's truly the case the guy should stand up for himself, get a lawyer and get his case together, and tell Waves to fuck off and take him to court if they want, where he will bring a countersuit for compensatory damages. The evidence has to be beyond circumstantial for Waves; if they don't have that, I doubt they'll take him to court.

Pretty brave when you're not looking down the barrel. It is a shame that our society has fallen to the level of only getting concened when it is happening to you.

[KU]

seriously. its fine to be legit and think piracy is below you... but the people who are pirates are not below you.

[jamester]

I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about...are you even reading what I'm saying?

What part of this isn't clear:

..this thread was posted with the premise that the guy had only trial versions of Waves stuff, and that he could prove he's never used Waves stuff in his studio commercially.

If that's truly the case the guy should stand up for himself, get a lawyer and get his case together, and tell Waves to fuck off..

Pirates are below me? WTF?

This is a *legal issue*, I'm trying to discuss the legal ramifications of what this guy is facing with Waves. Leedsquietman made some good points, the case may very well be dropped if Waves doesn't have anything more than circumstantial evidence. Are you guys capable of comprehending and discussing the legalities of a pending (and possibly frivolous) lawsuit?

I don't care either way, I'm done with this thread. I wish your friend the best, and if he's innocent I hope he beats this and teaches Waves a lesson about bullying. If he's not innocent, well that's the breaks unfortunately.

[Retro]

My friend was caught by waves (London)...this time it was a young lady claiming to want 10 songs mixed and recorded in the studio....
she got into a good conversation with my friend and won his trust and asked him to have a look at the voice channel because she wanted to see what he was using....
he did see her using her phone but didnt know she was recording him on her video camera...
she pretended to be interested and said she wants to book 7 days in the studio which got my friend happy because it was his first client as the studio was just built.
Exactly 2 months later he recieved a phone call from a lawyer exlaining the prosecution and allegations....
The stupid rep never got his real name and address and he moved the studio because of some electric problems so they dont know who he is or where to find him... ....The benefits of carrying an alias name...works in circumstances like these....he had just finished building the studio and was excited to start the ball rolling and his first client was waves...how ironic!!!......Well ofcourse he ignored the prosecution,changed the name of his studio and is at a different location....so i guess he slipped away like a wet fish back into the ocean... ...He bought focusrite liquid mix and got rid of the stinking waves bundles he had....

[otr5]

I have heard horrible stories about them.
they are being very brutal and cruel .
lots of people got cought and forced to pay lot of money which they cannot afford.
one thing for sure.
waves are getting more and more bad reputation.

[sweetjesus]

My friend was caught by waves (London)...this time it was a young lady claiming to want 10 songs mixed and recorded in the studio....
she got into a good conversation with my friend and won his trust and asked him to have a look at the voice channel because she wanted to see what he was using....
he did see her using her phone but didnt know she was recording him on her video camera...
she pretended to be interested and said she wants to book 7 days in the studio which got my friend happy because it was his first client as the studio was just built.
Exactly 2 months later he recieved a phone call from a lawyer exlaining the prosecution and allegations....
The stupid rep never got his real name and address and he moved the studio because of some electric problems so they dont know who he is or where to find him... ....The benefits of carrying an alias name...works in circumstances like these....he had just finished building the studio and was excited to start the ball rolling and his first client was waves...how ironic!!!......Well ofcourse he ignored the prosecution,changed the name of his studio and is at a different location....so i guess he slipped away like a wet fish back into the ocean... ...He bought focusrite liquid mix and got rid of the stinking waves bundles he had....

and how does it sound

[Retro]

he seems to be very happy with the liquid mix....The reason the alarm was raise is because he accidentally advertised that he had waves.....Nearly hung himself with that one....My condolences to the captured....

[KU]

Pirates are below me? WTF

I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about.

that is because you aren't listening.

..are you even reading what I'm saying?

yes

1) The "software police" can check my machine and find no illegal software, plus alll my boxes and receipts.

If you are in possesion of something that you were supposed to have paid for and yet didn't, then you stole it. There is no other angle to it than that...

...Whether you use them to make money or not is utterly irrelevent. Stealing software is not a "victimless crime", it is simply stealing...

Justify it to yourself however you want, the bottom line is you are stealing!

indeed I got the impression that "Pirates are below you".... far far below you, and that everything is black and white... that there is "no other angle" to it than that.





thanks for your thoughts and contributions. I think that you represent a great many people on this board and I do understand and respect your position. I just think differently, and believe there is enough gray area on this issue that Waves is wrong to hunt down its potential/future customers.

[jamester]

Ok, I swore I would leave this thread alone, but it's the internets so...

The "problem" here is that there are two angles being played at the same time towards this person's legal problem:

One is that he's innocent, only having demos of the Waves stuff and can prove it...the issue being the time/expense of having to hire a lawyer and get his proof/case together, and that Waves is trying to frame him basically, as part of a broad scare tactic (knowing that their software is some of the most widely pirated in the recording community - from kids in their bedrooms to professional studios around the world.)

But the other implies that he is guilty as charged, and that it's not fair that Waves is bullying him like this. Hence the caution for "discretion" that you put at the end of the original post.

As far as I see it, it's either one or the other. Which is it?

If it's the former - and that's what I've based all of my posts on - I indeed would like to see this guy fight it and win. It certainly seems like Waves only has circumstantial evidence, that this is being used as a scare tactic, and that the chances of it ever going to court are slim. I've got no love for Waves, nor bullies. He should defend himself, and possibly counter-sue for damages (legal fees and time compensation).

If it's the latter, then he was technically breaking the law. What can I say? There is a big difference between saying "stealing is wrong" and saying "pirates are below me". It is not moral hubris when I say "stealing software isn't a victimless crime", it is simply a fact.

I don't know how many other "angles" there are to stealing. How can taking something that's not yours, and not paying for it even though you're supposed to, have any more angles to it other than the fact that it's stealing? That's the freakin' definition of the word!

Understand that I am not judging. There is no moral supremecy to my discussion here, and as I said most of my posts have been based on the premise that he's innocent. I don't care either way. I have no illegal software now, but I did many years ago. I can just afford to be legit now, and I'm personally more comfortable with that (except for the credit card debt).

This is the digital version of a classic police speed trap. If I'm doing 90mph in a 50mph zone, and I didn't see the cop car behind the building at the bottom of the hill...can I really claim any kind of "right" to not getting a ticket? If I get lung cancer from smoking ciggarettes, who can I really blame but myself? If this guy's guilty I feel bad for him, not better than him or above him. But if he got caught stealing he'll probably have to pay a price for it.

That's just life. It sucks sometimes, but things like this come down to personal responsibility.

I would love to hear your thoughts on what you consider the "gray area" in this, really.

[Soarer]

But 75000 USD certainly isn't proportionate to the crime he has been accused of.

Waves must have proof like pictures of his screen with the pirated software -and NOT demo versions if they want to go anywhere with this case, I believe.

Don't know if that's even proof enough but if they haven't got solid proof they can't win right?

Why would they sue him if they can't prove that he has been using pirated software? There are many people who use pirated software so Waves should have enough people to use for their scare tactic.
I cant see why they would sue someone who is only using demo versions. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Retro]

[quote="jamester"]Ok, I swore I would leave this thread alone, but it's the internets so...

Waves is trying to frame him basically, as part of a broad scare tactic (knowing that their software is some of the most widely pirated in the recording community - from kids in their bedrooms to professional studios around the world.)

This is so true,they wanna make examples because they can't catch everyone....I not encouraging pirated software but i bet you 6 in 10 home studios or commercial recording studios have cracked plugins on their system or have it on a CDR(just in case) ....whether its for demo use or hobby or proffessional use......