Ableton Forum

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:01 am**

still not getting any joy with lights or Drum Racks, but i'll keep mucking about .. its all tempting me to get MAX generally but i may wait until MAX 5 comes out and take the plunge then..

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:47 am**

i do seem to be getting lights when i put a track into record strangely.. but not when i hit the pads (not even like they normally do when not in native mode) or when any notes are playing back.. odd odd odd.

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:11 am**

nobbystylus wrote:i do seem to be getting lights when i put a track into record strangely.. but not when i hit the pads (not even like they normally do when not in native mode) or when any notes are playing back.. odd odd odd.

Care to share how you've set it up so far? I've followed the instructions but don't seem to be even getting the MackieControl functions

edit -

I'm getting the lights working to a point now, but still no MackieControl functions with these settiings -

PK[squared]
1) from PK[squared] 1
2) PadKontrol
3) from PK[squared] 2
4) IAC Driver Bus 1
5) padKontrol Port 1

PK[squared] MIDI Setup = Auto Setup

Live
Control Surface = MackieControl
Input = from PK[squared] 1
Output = IAC Driver (Bus 1)

With the above settings, enabling record on tracks 1-8 light up pads 1-8 on the PK (with track 2 lighting up pad 1 & 2) The solo buttons on tracks 1-8 seem to light up pads 9-16, but any combination of active MIDI ports in Live doesn't seem to help with accessing the MackieControl functions?

Also with a MIDI track outputting MIDI to the IAC Bus, I can trigger all the pad lights using notes C-2 to D#1 but thats as far as I've got.

I'm probably missing something really simple, its pretty late.

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:10 am**

Machinate wrote:
M. Bréqs wrote:...Though I could get away with using a pedal on another midi controller...

FEATURE REQUEST: Could you "optionalize" the X/Y snapback?
Hey monty,

yeah, I reckon it could be done as a quick hack at some point... the info does reach max (the padKontrol senses when the xy is being touched, and relays that info too) - however I don't know how much time we'll have to do FRs over the next weeks - we'll see.

Just a second; Before you do any work amigo, it's possible that the X/Y pad on a Remote SL will do the snapback thing. Of course, I don't have my Remote 37 SL in Afghanistan, I'm here with a Remote Zero SL; no X/Y pad to try it out. But, if the X/Y pad on the Remote SL series can do a snapback to a set value for X and Y axes, then you can cancel my feature request...

...though somebody else might want it.

Regardless man, this is a frigging brilliant piece of work! Much appreciated!

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:20 am**

I have set up the PK squared exaclty as HOffman2k has stated..

1)from pk square 1
2)padkontrol CTRL
3)from pk squared 2
4)IAC driver (from ableton)
5)Padkontrol Port A

then midi i have setup Mackie Control as a control surface Input 'from pk Square output IAC driver (from ableton)
and i have put the padkontrol in as a control surface also with the same settings.

Then in the MIDI INPUT AND OUTPUTS BELOW
INPUTS
i have Padkontrol ports A and B both Track and Remote
I have pk squared 1 and 2 both Track and Remote
OUTPUT
i Have IAC driver (from ableton) both Track and Remote
and Padkontrol CTRL both Track and Remote

This gives me Mackie Transport and extra midi on all the other free buttons, but no lights either in or out and Drum Racks responds to the wrong notes..

I'll wait til those lovely Covert fellas put their little manual together til i pull any more hair out..

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:33 am**

nobbystylus wrote:i do seem to be getting lights when i put a track into record strangely.. but not when i hit the pads (not even like they normally do when not in native mode) or when any notes are playing back.. odd odd odd.

Do not set any output on the Mackie Control Surface in Preferences, only Input! Else the control informations are send out by Live that can make some pads light up.

Settings in PK[sq

Input of host: Virtual Midi Port 1 (from PK[squared] 1)
To PadKontrol 1 CTRL: padKONTROL 1 CTRL
Note To Host: Virtual Midi Port 2 (from PK[squared] 2)
Note From Host: Virtual Midi Port 3 (IAC)
From PadKontrol 1 Port 1: padKONTROL 1 Port A

Settings on padKontrol

Midi Channel: 1 (press "Knob 2 Assign" and Pad 01 simultanously)

Settings in Live Preferences

Control Surface: MackieControl
Input: Virtual Midi Port 1 (from PK[squared] 1)
Output: None (!)

Midi Ports Input: Virtual Midi Port 2 ([from PK[squared] 2)
Midi Ports Output: Virtual Midi Port 3 (IAC)

Settings for Midi track playing/containing the clip

Midi Input From: All Inputs / Virtual Midi Port 2 (from PK[squared] 2)
Monitoring: IN (AUTO + REC armed) for having the pads light up when hitting them
Monitoring: OFF (AUTO + REC unarmed) for having the pads light up according the the midi clip playing

Settings of dedicated Midi Track (setup for routing only, pads wont light up without this!)

Midi From: Track containing/playing the midi clip
Midi To: Virtual Midi Port 3 (IAC)
Monitoring: IN (!)

If this does not work then this IAC thing (whatever it is anyway) most likely is to be blamed or the virtual Ports don't work properly.

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:37 am**

I have found two bugs:

1. Live wont recognize any input from the PK until I set a Midi channel on the PK manually. I suggest that PK[sq initializes the PK on channel 1 from the start.

2. When using t.0 (lowest octave) the 01 pad will light up and stay agleam

when you hit pad 02. It can only be switched off by hitting pad 01 again.

Things I am missing:

1. My Fixed Velocity button <sniff>.

2. Having the Encoder endless knob react like a "Big Knob" so that it will change the value of whatever control I have selected in Live. This could be emulated by having it send Cursor Up key-command for clockwise rotation and Cursor Down for anti-clockwise rotation.

I could put up my own emulation using MidiOX (or Bome or whatever), but I recognized that the Encoder is not set to send Increments/Decrements/Endless but Portamento Time (CC) with values between 0-127 only.

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:47 am**

Another one bites the BUG:

Smoothing on the knobs doesn't work properly. It sometimes sends the same value upto 4 times in a row and often 2 times in a row.

Code: Select all

 TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT               
 0001FFFF   2  --     B0    01    01    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00020001   2  --     B0    01    01    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00020013   2  --     B0    01    02    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00020027   2  --     B0    01    02    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 0002003B   2  --     B0    01    03    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00020D41   2  --     B0    01    04    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00020D55   2  --     B0    01    05    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00020D67   2  --     B0    01    06    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00020D7D   2  --     B0    01    07    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 0002128F   2  --     B0    01    08    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00021293   2  --     B0    01    08    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000212A7   2  --     B0    01    09    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000212B9   2  --     B0    01    09    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000212CF   2  --     B0    01    0A    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000218D3   2  --     B0    01    0B    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000218D5   2  --     B0    01    0B    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000218E9   2  --     B0    01    0C    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000218FB   2  --     B0    01    0C    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00021911   2  --     B0    01    0D    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00021F05   2  --     B0    01    0E    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00021F09   2  --     B0    01    0E    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00021F1B   2  --     B0    01    0F    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00021F2F   2  --     B0    01    0F    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00021F43   2  --     B0    01    10    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000227C5   2  --     B0    01    11    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000227C5   2  --     B0    01    11    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000227D9   2  --     B0    01    11    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 000227EB   2  --     B0    01    11    1  ---  CC: Modulation        
 00022801   2  --     B0    01    12    1  ---  CC: Modulation

This is what the knobs send by themself if you just twist them fast. As you can see they can be quite smooth themselves if you stroke 'em right.

Code: Select all

 TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT               
 00004DA8  10  --     B9    14    04   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DAB  10  --     B9    14    05   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DAD  10  --     B9    14    06   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DB1  10  --     B9    14    07   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DB7  10  --     B9    14    09   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DBA  10  --     B9    14    0B   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DBD  10  --     B9    14    0C   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DC0  10  --     B9    14    0D   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DC3  10  --     B9    14    0E   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DC8  10  --     B9    14    0F   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DCB  10  --     B9    14    11   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DCE  10  --     B9    14    12   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DD1  10  --     B9    14    13   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DD4  10  --     B9    14    14   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DD7  10  --     B9    14    16   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DDA  10  --     B9    14    17   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DDD  10  --     B9    14    18   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DE1  10  --     B9    14    19   10  ---  Control Change        
 00004DE7  10  --     B9    14    1B   10  ---  Control Change

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:07 am**

Timur wrote:
nobbystylus wrote:i do seem to be getting lights when i put a track into record strangely.. but not when i hit the pads (not even like they normally do when not in native mode) or when any notes are playing back.. odd odd odd.
Do not set any output on the Mackie Control Surface in Preferences, only Input! Else the control informations are send out by Live that can make some pads light up.

Settings in PK[sq

Input of host: Virtual Midi Port 1 (from PK[squared] 1)
To PadKontrol 1 CTRL: padKONTROL 1 CTRL
Note To Host: Virtual Midi Port 2 (from PK[squared] 2)
Note From Host: Virtual Midi Port 3 (IAC)
From PadKontrol 1 Port 1: padKONTROL 1 Port A

Settings on padKontrol

Midi Channel: 1 (press "Knob 2 Assign" and Pad 01 simultanously)

Settings in Live Preferences

Control Surface: MackieControl
Input: Virtual Midi Port 1 (from PK[squared] 1)
Output: None (!)

Midi Ports Input: Virtual Midi Port 2 ([from PK[squared] 2)
Midi Ports Output: Virtual Midi Port 3 (IAC)

Settings for Midi track playing/containing the clip

Midi Input From: All Inputs / Virtual Midi Port 2 (from PK[squared] 2)
Monitoring: IN (AUTO + REC armed) for having the pads light up when hitting them
Monitoring: OFF (AUTO + REC unarmed) for having the pads light up according the the midi clip playing

Settings of dedicated Midi Track (setup for routing only, pads wont light up without this!)

Midi From: Track containing/playing the midi clip
Midi To: Virtual Midi Port 3 (IAC)
Monitoring: IN (!)

If this does not work then this IAC thing (whatever it is anyway) most likely is to be blamed or the virtual Ports don't work properly.

Thanks for that Timur, appreciate the effort, but i'm still not getting lights IN or OUT of my PK.. and Drum Racks is playing pretty odd notes..

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:32 am**

nobbystylus wrote:Thanks for that Timur, appreciate the effort, but i'm still not getting lights IN or OUT of my PK.. and Drum Racks is playing pretty odd notes..

Try not to quote my whole length posts so not to spam the thread with too much redundant quotes.

Drum Racks is not playing "odd" (on Windows), it's just that the PK starts with it's lowest note on the first upper row lefthand side while Drum Racks start at the last lower row lefthand side. You could just change the inputs of the Drum Rack, but that would be quite some manual work.

Regarding your problems with lights, do you have any alternative to IAC (what's IAC anyway) you can use? Or does a Midi monitor for Mac exists that allows you to monitor what going through those virtual cables?

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:35 am**

Yeah, without the manual it can be a bit confusing.
I'll try to have that sorted tonight or tomorrow.

Meanwhile I shot a few quick videos.

Video 1 shows how the PK should look when you loaded Native Mode:
http://covops.dreamhosters.com/dropbox/DSCF0324.AVI

Video 2 shows how the lights work:
http://covops.dreamhosters.com/dropbox/DSCF0325.AVI

As you can see, the lights do not work if you just press them. They are controlled by notes that go into our software, so if Live isn't sending notes to the application - you will see no lights.

It will play back your sequence as you recorded it into MIDI clips.
This means if you have a track that contains an instrument, you need a second MIDI track to feed the notes from the instrument track to the PK software.

So coming soon is the full step by step manual on how to correctly set this application up. Incidentally, it might be possible to have this as a pluggo on osx. So I'll look into that.

@Timur:

Mate, you are more efficient then a whole team of beta testers

Thanks for the info. Machinate will have to look into that. Though being this close to the holidays, you might have to wait a while for a revision of this application.
There is always something else brewing at CovOps HQ, which means we have some other projects that need to be wrapped up before the new year.

Anyway, I hope the videos are of some help.

Cheers

- Bjorn

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:50 am**

forgive my 'quote happy' exuberance its obviously due to excessive PK excitement..

Thanks for the videos hoffman2k its a help to know that the lights don't respond to being hit initially, but its not quite working as far as lights in the 2nd video go for me either, plus the drum rack issue automap issue.. .

Timur - The IAC bus is the Macs built in virtual midi ports, which work fantastically well for most applications, so i'm not quite sure what's happening with the light feedback..

i'll look forward to the manual with the excitement of a child before xmas.. and a pluggo would be great also..!!

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:14 am**

LIGHTS ARE WORKING!!!

I just had to adjust my octave down to the lowest (Knob Assign 1 and button 1) so that i was playing within range and now we're cooking!!

Drum Rack is now just playing upside down as you say, which is kind of strange, but i can cope for the moment...

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:25 am**

OK this setup works for the mac osx version

Midi track 1 (with playing clip):
MIDI from: from PK [square 1]
Monitor: In
Arm track: Enable

Midi track 2 (no clips):
MIDI from: Midi track 1
Monitor: In
MIDI to: IAC Driver
Arm track: Disable

Now record a a clip playing the PadKONTROL on midi track 1, and you'll see the light lights up accordingly. But the notes in Live are very strange.... they are really thin and doesn't match the notes you draw in Live..!?!? And if I'll draw the notes instead of playing them, no lights will show...!?!?! So my point is, I got it wokring, but I can't get any logic out of it

Posted: **Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:30 am**

jhawk wrote:OK this setup works for the mac osx version

Midi track 1 (with playing clip):
MIDI from: from PK [square 1]
Monitor: In
Arm track: Enable

Midi track 2 (no clips):
MIDI from: Midi track 1
Monitor: In
MIDI to: IAC Driver
Arm track: Disable

Now record a a clip playing the PadKONTROL on midi track 1, and you'll see the light lights up accordingly. But the notes in Live are very strange.... they are really thin and doesn't match the notes you draw in Live..!?!? And if I'll draw the notes instead of playing them, no lights will show...!?!?! So my point is, I got it wokring, but I can't get any logic out of it

You might want to check you are looking at the correct octave by hitting knob 1 assign and pad 01 for the lowest octave, and up to 08 for the highest octave..

Also, rather than having another midi track you can Group your device on your track and create another chain below it with an external instrument set to output to the IAC bus and this does the same thing

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Free PadKontrol app by The Covert Operators

Re: Free PadKontrol app by The Covert Operators