Ableton Forum

[art] wrote:Was just discussing this with a friend and he came up with a cinematic analogy. If Rock is the parallel of Theatre in the visual world, then is pre-recorded musical performance not akin to cinema? Do we expect to see the camera-men, lighting, directors and back-stage antics required for the creation of the film?

you just stumbled sideways into the old joke


DJ one : Hey do you fancy coming to the cinema tonight ?
DJ two : Sure! Who's the projectionist ?

[art] wrote:Was just discussing this with a friend and he came up with a cinematic analogy. If Rock is the parallel of Theatre in the visual world, then is pre-recorded musical performance not akin to cinema? Do we expect to see the camera-men, lighting, directors and back-stage antics required for the creation of the film? People are always very happy to sit there in silence and enjoy the movie. Perhaps the biggest problem is, if you've got nothing to show, you shouldn't be on stage. The elevation thing really has a lot to answer for.

http://www.franciscolopez.net/stage.html

Good analogy. But the visual thing is so much more arresting to people than the audio. I believe that contributes to why people stand & stare in a concert vs. dancing at a DJ gig.

Plus it not comment to see all the stage hands, dressers, & makeup artists required for theatre on stage do we?

Angstrom wrote:

[art] wrote:Was just discussing this with a friend and he came up with a cinematic analogy. If Rock is the parallel of Theatre in the visual world, then is pre-recorded musical performance not akin to cinema? Do we expect to see the camera-men, lighting, directors and back-stage antics required for the creation of the film?

you just stumbled sideways into the old joke


DJ one : Hey do you fancy coming to the cinema tonight ?
DJ two : Sure! Who's the projectionist ?

thats fantastic

Angstrom wrote:

[art] wrote:Was just discussing this with a friend and he came up with a cinematic analogy. If Rock is the parallel of Theatre in the visual world, then is pre-recorded musical performance not akin to cinema? Do we expect to see the camera-men, lighting, directors and back-stage antics required for the creation of the film?

you just stumbled sideways into the old joke


DJ one : Hey do you fancy coming to the cinema tonight ?
DJ two : Sure! Who's the projectionist ?

Priceless!

[art] wrote:Was just discussing this with a friend and he came up with a cinematic analogy. If Rock is the parallel of Theatre in the visual world, then is pre-recorded musical performance not akin to cinema? Do we expect to see the camera-men, lighting, directors and back-stage antics required for the creation of the film? People are always very happy to sit there in silence and enjoy the movie. Perhaps the biggest problem is, if you've got nothing to show, you shouldn't be on stage. The elevation thing really has a lot to answer for.

http://www.franciscolopez.net/stage.html

I've used similar lines of thought in these discussions before.

Mainly when someone calls electronic or "laptop bands" fake.

Why is it that no one goes to a movie and goes "man this sucks, this is a fake Play"?

To us there are many reasons why we're not watching live actors when we go to a movie but wouldn't Shakespeare think it was all fake?

wow impressive.

I guess my rant was a little off mark calling live an instrument. I think almost everyone understood where I was going.

It's great to see that everyone feels similarly about the topic but does not agree entirely. I think its a great climate for progression.

I think a large part of my intention to create an interactive experience for live computer style performance is that I simply want to use the tools I have to make the people on the dancefloor emotionally connect with the progression of the music.

I am really looking for a way to make the sound and my actions congruent. So be it if I have to act at times. If it builds anticipation and I can enhance the experience then so be it.

Whats everyones favourite control and how do you use it to inflict maximum effect on the audience?

Dave

this whole threads focuses on how the musician can please a crowd and not how the musician can please himself. some of the thread focuses on both.

this is what I see this thread saying, either this: "I wanna make the crowd happy so I'll work my ass off making everything real time" or "I wanna make the crowd happy so I'll look like I'm working my ass off"

well how bout this for a different approach. you don't have to work your ass off, just do whatever the fuck you have fun doing. guitar was never supposed to be about difficulty, it's about entertaining your own muse and the end result just so happens to be that people like watching. weezer plays 3 fucking chords, it's not about difficulty.

I'm not gonna offer up a live approach that'll make you happy and the crowd, cause every single person in this thread should be coming up with whatever they enjoy doing WITHOUT focus on how the crowd will react because if you are truely tapping into your muse and loving what you do the crowd will take care of itself.

tempus3r wrote:Mainly when someone calls electronic or "laptop bands" fake.

Why is it that no one goes to a movie and goes "man this sucks, this is a fake Play"?

To us there are many reasons why we're not watching live actors when we go to a movie but wouldn't Shakespeare think it was all fake?

I wasn't giving it too much thought, but I think your analogy might be lacking.

If watching a live-band is like going to theatre then listening to their songs at a disco is like going to cinema (some band like the Stones do cinema-films even) and listening to their album at home is like watching TV on a small screen (you can even have videos there).

But seeing a one-man laptop band on stage doing nothing but pushing play buttons is like going to theatre to watch TV.

monkeyboy wrote:I just wrote a post about this on my blog having spent a night watching four very different live electronic performances.

You can read the whole thing here

Your blog post reminds me of another point.

I think it is very important to ... make mistakes.

I'm not suggesting making one on purpose. But when it happens, work with it.

Many times I have totally hit the wrong button (I drink while playing) or clicked the wrong thing or fired the wrong clip and it was completely obvious to the audience. Rather than rattle me during my set, I remember that after every time, people tell me that the mistake made others around them comment "wow he's actually doing that live, that's awesome".

People come to expect electronic music to sound perfect and it supports the "he must be checking his email" thing. When you make mistakes, people immediately get the dose of HUMAN we've been talking about.

Timur wrote: Without giving it too much thought I think your analogy is lacking.

No doubt. 5:43am. No sleep. Bound to type shit that does not make sense.

What are you wearing?

tempus3r wrote:Rather than rattle me during my set, I remember that after every time, people tell me that the mistake made others around them comment "wow he's actually doing that live, that's awesome".

Timur wrote:And it means to be challenged by the task of a performance. Furthermore it means to give some things out of the rather riskless control of a simple play-button. Yes, you should be looking as if everything is cool and smooth, but on the other hand some people like to feel that all the perfect world/show could fall apart for at least a few seconds by simply pressing the wrong chord and thus will appreciate your effort even more.

tempus3r wrote:

Timur wrote: Without giving it too much thought I think your analogy is lacking.

No doubt. 5:43am. No sleep. Bound to type shit that does not make sense.

What are you wearing?

Hehe, I changed the first sentence before you replied so that it doesn't sound as harsh as you might have understood it. It wasn't meant near as serious as it may have sounded/read.

11:55 am here, I'm wearing jeans, a shirt and shoes 'cause I just came back in.

In the end I think we think the same thing to think about...

Timur wrote:
But seeing a one-man laptop band on stage doing nothing but pushing play buttons is like going to theatre to watch TV.

I don;t think any of these analogies are anything like correct.

TV?
Movies and cinema?

not at all like what a laptop performance is. Because even the crappiest laptop performer is triggering parts and altering things, making decisions as to what happens next and how quickly.

If you want to draw an analogy it is more similar to watching a movie editor at work. A movie editor who also acts certain parts in the film

you see, these analogies are all weak.

tempus3r wrote:[Many times I have totally hit the wrong button (I drink while playing) or clicked the wrong thing or fired the wrong clip and it was completely obvious to the audience. Rather than rattle me during my set, I remember that after every time, people tell me that the mistake made others around them comment "wow he's actually doing that live, that's awesome".

So the moral of this thread is:

To hell with perfect performances. Drink on stage instead.

And someone a couple of pages back questioned whether Booka Shade live would be worth seeing. I saw them saturday, they absolutely rocked. And they were completely loving it too. Recomended.

Actually thinking about it again, your comment highlights the real problem with playing off a laptop. It's not that people think it looks boring, it's that they don't know you're playing live in the first place. In a club environment rather than on stage I can honestly say I don't believe people really give a shit what you look like if the music's good (ie. they like the music). However, they have no idea what you're doing up there.