Ableton Forum

nebulae wrote: (but let me put a limit on this by saying a preemptive fuck off to anyone who wants to provide the "hardware is better" argument...put that on another thread, byatch. *hugs*)

Without getting into it about why I'm not a fan of 'emulation', which is essentially what you're asking for here, there are a few things you can do.

First off, if by 'warm' you mean analog feel, then start with the synth you're working with, if it's capable add a slight amount of detuning, do so. Secondly realize that from what I can tell modern soft synths are all generally bright as fuck, high end tweaking on the patches to give gloss. Gloss =\= warm, so apply the filters to roll off the overall high end.
Ohmicide is good for adding a tape feel, Camel Phat, even the free version can help.

I dunno I really just stick to colder synths soft wise, and use hardware for 'warm', so many reasons, but I understand the desire. Zebra can do some warm type patches, but wavetable synths, (which essentially all software and analog emulation synths are), just don't strike me as warm.

seriously?

well, there is always software that tries to imitate that effect. But the only real way is to:

1. Get a good quality vacuum tube compressor, which could range from $300 - $3,000. Re sample it through a few times using a tiny bit of compression each time. It will get smoother and softer each time.
or
2. Ever wonder why techno sounds so good once the needle drags itself across the vinyl? If you press your music to vinyl, you pretty much won't need to soften your synth.
or
3. Run it out of a good amp, or at least something with tubes, but then you get into re-sampling your audio in an acoustically controlled environment, and finding a really good mic.

or my favorite...
4. Buy an analog tape recorder. Tape saturation is the best. Talk about goose bumps. Even running your entire track through one will make a huge difference. You can find an Otari reel to reel for a decent price. I know Crystal Method used to use an old tape recorder for their synth tracks. Just pipe the audio, crank the input gain all the way until the red light peaks on, and then re sample it. But, nowadays, i think they use Izotope Trash.


Good luck...

^^^ all great suggestions, thanks.

I tried a bunch of different techniques yesterday with a combination of demos and stuff I already own. I have Ohmicide and CamelPhat, and the rest I grabbed demos to hear what works well.

Honestly, I didn't really hear a big difference with the Voxengo stuff. I like Elephant as a limiter, but the Warmifier and the Lampthruster didn't really make a simple sawtooth sound any warmer. I tested a cold synth like Sytrus and a warm synth like Sylenth1. I then ran them through Vintage Warmer, and although it did get more meaty, it just sounded dirty rather than more "analog".

My best results came from Live's Saturator, GR3, Camelphat, and T-Racks Compressor, depending on the patch and varying uses of those plugs. When I wanted real distortion, I use Ohmicide, and it kicked some ass. Next, I'll try to route it though a hardware mixer and see how that sounds.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions.

nebulae wrote:^^^ all great suggestions, thanks.

I tried a bunch of different techniques yesterday with a combination of demos and stuff I already own. I have Ohmicide and CamelPhat, and the rest I grabbed demos to hear what works well.

Honestly, I didn't really hear a big difference with the Voxengo stuff. I like Elephant as a limiter, but the Warmifier and the Lampthruster didn't really make a simple sawtooth sound any warmer. I tested a cold synth like Sytrus and a warm synth like Sylenth1. I then ran them through Vintage Warmer, and although it did get more meaty, it just sounded dirty rather than more "analog".

My best results came from Live's Saturator, GR3, Camelphat, and T-Racks Compressor, depending on the patch and varying uses of those plugs. When I wanted real distortion, I use Ohmicide, and it kicked some ass. Next, I'll try to route it though a hardware mixer and see how that sounds.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions.

Neb,
Do you own any outboard gear that is tube driven? A good tube pre amp may be all you are really looking for. Make sure you let it warm up for a while then set the gain to clip just a little. The suttle clipping in a tube circuit is truelly a magical thing. I have had amazing results with inexpensive items like the Presonus Blue Tubes for vocals and digital synths.

Just remember to have fun with it!

Moody wrote:

nebulae wrote: Neb,
Do you own any outboard gear that is tube driven? A good tube pre amp may be all you are really looking for. Make sure you let it warm up for a while then set the gain to clip just a little. The suttle clipping in a tube circuit is truelly a magical thing. I have had amazing results with inexpensive items like the Presonus Blue Tubes for vocals and digital synths.

Just remember to have fun with it!

Yeah, I actually own a Presonus Tube Pre, so I'd have to get another one to use it in stereo...might have to give that a shot

Fabfilter Volcano 2 can warm things up nicely if you crank up the input gain.

3dot... wrote:MidiVerb is fucking lame ass reverb....I hate that thing...
I don't like anything Alesis....

I used to have the midiverb 1 and yes it was very lame. the midiverb 3 is pretty decent. I've got it, to me it sounds pretty awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5FH8LrPEY

it's not gonna sound like the best thing you ever heard but the best thing you ever heard isn't gonna cost $75 usd.

Johnisfaster wrote:

3dot... wrote:MidiVerb is fucking lame ass reverb....I hate that thing...
I don't like anything Alesis....

I used to have the midiverb 1 and yes it was very lame. the midiverb 3 is pretty decent. I've got it, to me it sounds pretty awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5FH8LrPEY

it's not gonna sound like the best thing you ever heard but the best thing you ever heard isn't gonna cost $75 usd.

yeah ...it's on the cheap side... good for guitar players...

nebulae wrote:

Moody wrote:

nebulae wrote: Neb,
Do you own any outboard gear that is tube driven? A good tube pre amp may be all you are really looking for. Make sure you let it warm up for a while then set the gain to clip just a little. The suttle clipping in a tube circuit is truelly a magical thing. I have had amazing results with inexpensive items like the Presonus Blue Tubes for vocals and digital synths.

Just remember to have fun with it!

Yeah, I actually own a Presonus Tube Pre, so I'd have to get another one to use it in stereo...might have to give that a shot

or you could try mixing with the stereo one and creative EQing so that you keep some of the clarity and stereo effect

or bounce it in 2 passes, left then right

^ that's really time consuming...but I'll give it a test

3dot... wrote:

Johnisfaster wrote:

3dot... wrote:MidiVerb is fucking lame ass reverb....I hate that thing...
I don't like anything Alesis....

I used to have the midiverb 1 and yes it was very lame. the midiverb 3 is pretty decent. I've got it, to me it sounds pretty awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5FH8LrPEY

it's not gonna sound like the best thing you ever heard but the best thing you ever heard isn't gonna cost $75 usd.

yeah ...it's on the cheap side... good for guitar players...

still sounds good to me, I use it all the time.

route your digital stuff out to a cheap amp, or two. record the room. Add it to the signal. It sounds best if you have different instruments recorded in the same room - because then you have a kind of coherent sound of a room.

nebulae wrote:I'm looking for suggestions on how to make softsynths sound warm -

LOL, five threads on this an 98% of the answers are total shit. People saying resample through gear makes it warm are 100% correct. Everyone else is lost in here.

This is the obvious choice for what your looking for and within a budget.

http://www.analoguehaven.com/jomox/mresonator/

or a

http://www.jomox.com/product_details.ph ... oduct_id=3


Or you could go with a moog filter.


Resample.

Olga wrote:
People saying resample through gear makes it warm are 100% correct. Everyone else is lost in here.

Now, thats what i call advanced irony

Warm is what ever people think it is. Before talking about what makes things warm, one has to define the term warm more precise.
Remember the times when music teachers told at school that a synthesizer is cold as hell, and they were refering to Moogs ?!?!?

Robert

Robert Henke wrote: Now, thats what i call advanced irony

Warm is what ever people think it is. Before talking about what makes things warm, one has to define the term warm more precise.
Remember the times when music teachers told at school that a synthesizer is cold as hell, and they were refering to Moogs ?!?!?

Robert

agreed on the irony


you're right, warm is an illusive terminology...here's some context - I went 100% softsynth in 2002...did a few records...then I missed my old JP, so I got a JP8080 in 2004 and a Virus C...did a few records...when I listened to the stuff I did in 2002, it sounded thin and not full in comparison. Since then, I've gone back to 100% software...I don't miss the hardware in the sense that it's so much more work to have hardware and maintain patches, etc. And software these days doesn't sound thin any more. But there is a missing "air" to the sound...not sure how else to describe it other than to say that it felt more organic when my JP or the C was being routed through a mixer and recorded in as audio. It could be the ADDA converters on the machines, or the mixer I was using or both.

In any case, last night, I tried to route a simple sawtooth out of my sound card, through a presonus tubepre and back into the sound card. Aside from the latency that was recorded (which can easily be adjusted), I found the results to be pretty good. The tube pre put in a bit of grit and some "air", so I think this is what I'm looking for.