Ableton Forum

Funk N. Furter wrote:

Jack McOck wrote:

myrnova wrote:9 millions? U.S. propaganda or what?!

Pails in comparison to the USSR et co.'s 100 million death count. Nazism is practically pacifist next to communism.

Wikipedia: Mass killings occurred under some Communist regimes during the twentieth century with an estimated death toll numbering between 85 and 100 million (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killi ... st_regimes)

This figure also kills off any speculation that religion causes war. The non-religious have been far more bellicose.

Cocky, retract that nonsense or I will debunk it.

Retract? It's supported.

myrnova wrote:

rakim87 wrote: more reasons to hate england

England?!

england killed off most of the natives and were a large contribution to the slavery of africans, they might've even been the ones who started slavery. england is also responsible for the existence of the U.S. England is the worst.

rakim87 wrote:

myrnova wrote:

rakim87 wrote: more reasons to hate england

England?!

england killed off most of the natives and were a large contribution to the slavery of africans, they might've even been the ones who started slavery. england is also responsible for the existence of the U.S. England is the worst.

Those were the romans, I guess. And the spanish, the Church, Portuguese, French, Dutch. English, too. But above all the romans. The existence of the U.S. is because of the U.S., what the hell are you talking about? England?! It is like saying "existence of Italy is because of Greece", "Existence of Algeria is because of France", "existence of south america is because of Spain" etc. Nonsense.

Forge. wrote: As a Brit

I always thought you where from Australia

... oh, and the existence of the swiss confederation is because of cheese, of course

@myrnova

well see, people from england traveled to what is now called the U.S. and "colonized" In the process bringing disease and destroying the culture of many, many natives that lived there. It was completely started by the English. In fact, they even speak English there, so it's ironically a foreign language that people use to complain about foreigners. England also was extremely destructive towards parts of Africa.

Funk N. Furter wrote:Support my arse. It contains a link to a dodgy wikipedia article. As I said, there has never been anything remotely like a communist country. At least wiki used a capital C, which is to say it used Communist instead of communist as you did. The two are completely different.

I will use the correct terms. Most of the so-called 100 million was under Stalinist regimes. Stalin was an anti-communist who fought a bloody civil war against socialism. The only non-Stalinist one was Russia from 1917-1923. They inherited WW1, and it was Lenin who fought for a peace deal with Germany. All the other parties tried to sabotage that. Then the White generals started a civil war which the capitalists supported. The USA, England etc supported them too, with 200,000 troops and lots of weapons.

The aftermath of years of war and civil war coincided with a drought and thus a famine. The capitalist countries had tried to starve the Russians. This was where a lot of the fatalities occurred.

Wikipedia is pretty much the only thing anybody quotes around here, including you, and now suddenly it's "dodgy"?

It also lists Stalin as a communist, and claims that up to only 60 million people died under his regime, leaving 40 million of the previously mentioned 100 million deaths unaccounted for by Stalin's policies alone. It claims the famines you talk about were directly caused by Stalin's communist policies, which lead to general mismanagement (put incompetents in charge!) and intentional genocide.

One thing I will give Stalin is that he was content to keep the massacre within his own borders (and the Ukraine), advocating socialism in one country, rather than bloody global conquest, which indeed makes him rather more reasonable than you.

You can quibble about the definitions as much as you like, but the only people I know who still claim communism isn't communism are handful of communists, all of whom lack a basic understanding of economics, politics and history. I offered to explain them to you, but you turned me down, and posted a picture of a rooster instead.

Funk N. Furter wrote:

andydes wrote:
The US might have had links to them before they got involved in the war, but they didn't know about the extermination camps and they cannot be held responsible for it.

Really? Trotsky (in exile in Turkey) managed to write this in 1931, over a year before Hitler took power in 1933:

"Germany is now passing through one of those great historic hours upon which the fate of the German people, the fate of Europe, and in significant measure the fate of all humanity, will depend for decades."

"Worker-Communists, you are hundreds of thousands, millions; you cannot leave for anyplace; there are not enough passports for you. Should fascism come to power, it will ride over your skulls and spines like a terrific tank. Your salvation lies in merciless struggle. And only a fighting unity with the Social Democratic workers can bring victory. Make haste, worker-Communists, you have very little time left!"

Why do you think Trotsky was so right? In 1938 he also said:

" It is possible to imagine without difficulty what awaits the Jews at the mere outbreak of the future world war. But even without war the next development of world reaction signifies with certainty the physical extermination of the Jews ."

Thoughts?

My thoughts are he called it. It was speculation without evidence. Turned out he was right, but you said yourself that few Germans knew what was actually happening.

Certainly it was clear at the time that Jews were being persecuted and exploited, but it's fair to say the world was pretty shocked to discover the truth. It was the Nazi party that done it.

The whole US supported Hilter thing people like to bring up is just a way of saying "Ooooh, look how bad your country is". It's a distraction from talking about current events and quite frankly it pisses off the very people who you most need on your side. Ordinary Americans.

I think this kind of thing does more to stir up patriotic feelings than any of the shit Myrnova posts about. It actually wouldn't surprise me if he's a CIA plant.

PS: Sorry Mrynova, I meant 6 million Jews exterminated. But add in Romanies, homosexuals, the disabled, soviet civilians and prisoners of war, and the total goes up to about 10 or 11. Does that sound less like US propaganda?

I guess U.S. made more than 6 millions victims...

myrnova wrote:

Jack McOck wrote:

myrnova wrote:I laugh at you because you are just a dumb rich far right racist and everything you claim is wrong, or just an attempt to cmpensate your tiny cock complex.

I laughed at "a reason to hate England" because it is known the slaves of U.S.A. who escaped from there asked England to protect them, because England had no slavery, since it was forbidden since 1770 or so. In U.S.A. slavery and racism have never ended, in my opinion.

Try 1833. But just so that we're clear, your logic is that since the English abolished slavery, it's risible to attribute any practice of slavery to them? And please explain slowly, in short sentences, with monosyllabic words, as I am a dumb racist with a tiny pecker.

Wikipedia says "1772", actually...
Oh, and Romans had slaves, too: many of them were swiss.

Da Goths (Gothic: *Gut-þiuda,[1] *Gutans[2]; Oldskool Norse: Gutar/Gotar; German: Goten; Latin: Gothi; Greek: ??????, Gótthoi) was a Eastside Germanic people, two of whose branches, tha Visigoths n' tha Ostrogoths, played a blingin role up in tha fall of tha Roman Empire n' tha emergence of Medieval Europe.

Glenn303, the only thing I understand is that you are a racist (i guess you try to be funny imitating black people's way of speaking, right?). It reminds me old italian racist comedians under the fascist regime...

myrnova wrote:I guess U.S. made more than 6 millions victims...

*England

rakim87 wrote:

myrnova wrote:I guess U.S. made more than 6 millions victims...

*England

England?!

myrnova wrote:Glenn303, the only thing I understand is that you are a racist (i guess you try to be funny imitating black people's way of speaking, right?). It reminds me old italian racist comedians under the fascist regime...

You sound very racist.