Ableton Forum

H20nly wrote:don't remind me.

fortunately, all of my air conditioner's features work as advertised... right out the box... in version 1!

haha!

cstump wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:

eyeknow wrote:
The comparison of bitwig one IS reasonable to live in it's current state. They have had years to get it right.

So, bBitwig has had roughly 3 years while Ableton has had 14. Yeah that's comparable all right.

I can't let this go by without saying something, I know I shouldn't but I will anyhoo....

Didn't these guys work with Ableton and break off to build the "Savior of an app" Bitwig? that being the case there is absolutely NO excuse, THEY SHOULD HAVE GOT IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!, after all they can't claim ignorance nor inability being part of this organization they were privy to the inner workings(and coding) of Live ond all of it's shortcomings BEFORE they even started coding their "NEW" and "INNOVATIVE" product even being coded for cross platform they had plenty of time INCLUDING their experience here.

That should end the argument but I know for a fact it wont.

Note: I do expect a thrashing for this...

No thrashing, For a lot of people Bitwig did get it right. Exactly what are you missing? There are features that they haven't implemented yet, this isn't unusual when a DAW or any piece of software is in 1.0. Plus there are features Live simply doesn't have. It's not Live, it's got clip launching and other similarities, enough to where to own both would probably be redundant, but it's not heading in the same direction as Live per say.
I don't own it, I probably never will, there's a similarity with the way the workflow is in Bitwig to Logic, where I never felt Logic was friendly with other DAWs, you're supposed to do everything in Logic. I'm pretty happy with Live and DP8 and for the most part they work well together, and without SysEx, Rewire, advanced MIDI routing which DP8 and Live offer me, I wouldn't want to switch back to another DAW that tries to do it all, but doesn't. Logic and Mainstage combo are the kind of enclosed environment that Bitwig is, it works for some, and I'm not at all being a fanboy of Bitwig by admitting that.

I honestly don't get the whole fanboy thing anymore? whether to be all gushy about a new DAW or to act like it's shit compared to your favorite DAW? My take on Bitwig is it's actually pretty stable on my computer, it has some pretty great features, and it's going to keep on improving, MID export for instance was already added in an update. It doesn't address enough things I would like to see in Live for me to be interested but it's pretty cool. I feel the same way about Cubase and Fruity Loops, I've never owned either, but they seem pretty cool, and have some amazing features.

I figured that was coming.

The good thing I guess would be the better Bitwig gets the more Ableton will have to step up to the plate to compete, with all fanboism aside.

Nothing is perfect isn't it.

well that's kind of the moral of the story isn't it?

all the DAWs mentioned on this page alone have some pretty amazing features. none of them have all of those features.

so the great Bitwig migration is only as enticing as the bait lets it be.

i have Live, Cubase, Logic, and Fruity Loops at my disposal... along with WaveLab. in all fairness, i have hardly touched Logic... not for lack of want, but because the others offer plenty... and wanting to try/own Logic for the sake of following the hype yielded nothing more than me going back to what i am comfortable with. if one of those DAWs has something i need that the one i'm using doesn't... i find a way to extract that... but only if the ends justify the means.

H20nly wrote:well that's kind of the moral of the story isn't it?

all the DAWs mentioned on this page alone have some pretty amazing features. none of them have all of those features.

so the great Bitwig migration is only as enticing as the bait lets it be.

i have Live, Cubase, Logic, and Fruity Loops at my disposal... along with WaveLab. in all fairness, i have hardly touched Logic... not for lack of want, but because the others offer plenty... and wanting to try/own Logic for the sake of following the hype yielded nothing more than me going back to what i am comfortable with. if one of those DAWs has something i need that the one i'm using doesn't... i find a way to extract that... but only if the ends justify the means.

I think if you've jumped ship a few times you end up not as likely to. I initially ditched DP2 + Reason for Logic + VST plug ins for various reasons. Looking back on that I would have been more productive to just stick with DP and Reason. I bought Live 3 on a whim because a contest they had made it cheap, like under $300 cheap. MOTU have no penalty for skipping versions, so I slowly started using it as a back end for Live.

In a way I'm glad I did all that though, because for me anyway, stable versions of a DAW are now way more important than feature sets. It's also painfully obvious to me that I'll probably always use more than one DAW.

Angstrom wrote:I'm amazed that people think because the year is 2014 and because 16 gb of ram is now common this means that version 1 software should only be launched with every single feature ever implemented or thought of!
Live version 9 still lacks many " industry standard" , " basic" and "pro" features, it's version nine. What a sin!

Yet somehow a version 1 software is expected to include every feature any other competitor ever had and every feature any user ever speculated about. Apparently any history of work, any history of software development, any comparison, is now null, because the year is different. In the year 2100 all DAW software at version 1 will include the totality of the universe. Because of the number of the year and how much ram currently costs. These two figures apparently mean coders can currently write 4000 function per second, it's an exponential curve you see.

Weird internet logic

no, i believe (in my opinion) your logic is weird. Bitshit has been released in 2014, so therefore should at least be roughly comparable with other 2014 programs. It absolutely needs to grow just like anything else, and even I can see that's fair, but that doesn't mean it's normal to release a DAWt that takes one back 15 years just because it's a version 1.

Machinesworking wrote:

eyeknow wrote:
The comparison of bitwig one IS reasonable to live in it's current state. They have had years to get it right.

So, bBitwig has had roughly 3 years while Ableton has had 14. Yeah that's comparable all right.

Actually, they get much less of a pass being EX ableton lead programmers and being armed with the knowledge of what they are up against. They had a better head start than almost anyone else.

cstump wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:

eyeknow wrote:
The comparison of bitwig one IS reasonable to live in it's current state. They have had years to get it right.

So, bBitwig has had roughly 3 years while Ableton has had 14. Yeah that's comparable all right.

I can't let this go by without saying something, I know I shouldn't but I will anyhoo....

Didn't these guys work with Ableton and break off to build the "Savior of an app" Bitwig? that being the case there is absolutely NO excuse, THEY SHOULD HAVE GOT IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!, after all they can't claim ignorance nor inability being part of this organization they were privy to the inner workings(and coding) of Live ond all of it's shortcomings BEFORE they even started coding their "NEW" and "INNOVATIVE" product even being coded for cross platform they had plenty of time INCLUDING their experience here.

That should end the argument but I know for a fact it wont.

Note: I do expect a thrashing for this...

Oh thank goodness I am not the only one.

eyeknow wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:

eyeknow wrote:
The comparison of bitwig one IS reasonable to live in it's current state. They have had years to get it right.

So, bBitwig has had roughly 3 years while Ableton has had 14. Yeah that's comparable all right.

So are you saying that for 400 bucks someone should just jump on it and support hoping that they will implement stuff at some unknown point in time?

EDIT: and while I'm at it ( ) allow me to say that I don't have 400 bucks for a product that is behind where we are at NOW. again, if it was too ambitious, that oh well. Why would anyone want a product that doesn't do what live already does for 400 bucks? Did you buy it?

Yeah, I'm a little touchy tonight but I don't see where my thoughts are out of line with reality.

Your thoughts are perfectly fine, at least there are three of us who can see bitshit for what it is. LOL! Hope you are feeling better and less touchy soon.

I'm confused. Which features did Bitwig advertise which do not work?

Angstrom wrote:I'm confused. Which features did Bitwig advertise which do not work?

I'm confused, where did i say that?

Edit: added the word "where"

@ eyeknow: that is a real issue. BW is promising, and if they continue to v 2, v3, they will be a force to be reckoned with. But will they survive that long? They need to make some sales in the interim, and if there is not a strong value proposition right now, those sales won't materialize.

TTOZ wrote:

Angstrom wrote:I'm amazed that people think because the year is 2014 and because 16 gb of ram is now common this means that version 1 software should only be launched with every single feature ever implemented or thought of!
Live version 9 still lacks many " industry standard" , " basic" and "pro" features, it's version nine. What a sin!

Yet somehow a version 1 software is expected to include every feature any other competitor ever had and every feature any user ever speculated about. Apparently any history of work, any history of software development, any comparison, is now null, because the year is different. In the year 2100 all DAW software at version 1 will include the totality of the universe. Because of the number of the year and how much ram currently costs. These two figures apparently mean coders can currently write 4000 function per second, it's an exponential curve you see.

Weird internet logic

no, i believe (in my opinion) your logic is weird. Bitshit has been released in 2014, so therefore should at least be roughly comparable with other 2014 programs. It absolutely needs to grow just like anything else, and even I can see that's fair, but that doesn't mean it's normal to release a DAWt that takes one back 15 years just because it's a version 1.

You have no real logic... just hate... and you make up the logic to justify the hate

deva wrote:

TTOZ wrote:

Angstrom wrote:I'm amazed that people think because the year is 2014 and because 16 gb of ram is now common this means that version 1 software should only be launched with every single feature ever implemented or thought of!
Live version 9 still lacks many " industry standard" , " basic" and "pro" features, it's version nine. What a sin!

Yet somehow a version 1 software is expected to include every feature any other competitor ever had and every feature any user ever speculated about. Apparently any history of work, any history of software development, any comparison, is now null, because the year is different. In the year 2100 all DAW software at version 1 will include the totality of the universe. Because of the number of the year and how much ram currently costs. These two figures apparently mean coders can currently write 4000 function per second, it's an exponential curve you see.

Weird internet logic

no, i believe (in my opinion) your logic is weird. Bitshit has been released in 2014, so therefore should at least be roughly comparable with other 2014 programs. It absolutely needs to grow just like anything else, and even I can see that's fair, but that doesn't mean it's normal to release a DAWt that takes one back 15 years just because it's a version 1.

You have no real logic... just hate... and you make up the logic to justify the hate

absolutely no hate whatsoever.. Just because your diva mind imagines it so doesn't make it as such.

LMAO often and finding it hilarious on the other hand, is correct.

Perhaps your inability to understand that and always go at me personally when i make an opinion on bitshit, shows how mentally incapacitated you really are. So i feel THAT sorry for you, I will allow you to continue your pathetic attempts at insulting and psycho analysing me.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=405748

A great cross example.. Bmanic a very respected poster at KVR who finds ssl's new plugin and price hilarious (comedy gold to use his words), and he will continue to point that out when someone says otherwise. I am not going to go jump on him even though i disagree with him, as i know for a fact his opinion is honest and simply how he feels about the product and if he thought it was good he would say so, just like I would about bitshit. I just didn't expect it to be *that bad*. And yes, i find that amusing.

And i find people's arguments that it now has midi export, and that one has been said over and over again, as if it was some revelation and some new feature exclusive to bitwig, also hilarious. hence my sig.

so to quote a very smart man, i will now use the terms comedy gold. That's what bitshit is.

TTOZ, can you give it a rest, please? Hate on BW all you like, but insulting other forum members is not cool.