OT: Trick Question which is worse Racism or Reverse Racism ?

[scott nathaniel]

What's wrong with this is that racism and the deleterious effects are long lasting. The privileges aloted to families of fortune is far more outrageous to me than affirmative action. The disparity between jail term for blacks vs, white is far more outrageous to me than a few kids getting into some thirdrate Cal State program. I think that in little as 40 years ago blacks were segregated and not allowed in white schools merits them being allowed extra privileges for at least a century. My 2 bits

So what you are stating is an admitted "lesser of two evils" IYO, correct?

Yes, That is correct, I prefer the lesser of two evils.

Personally, I am sick of hearing about the blacks/whites in prison. I am sick of hearing about gangs, justified entitlement, and affirmative action.

Sense of entitlement right there, laddie. Goofy rant, !

If a person is stupid or evil, it's because they are stupid and/or evil.

Profound

Forgive me,

Forgiven

I would be willing to bet serious coin that I could name you 1 healthy minded and extremely powerful contributor to the human race who is black, and who comes from the exact same impoverished neighborhood, that every 5 poor unfortunate black criminals you can name do.

Would you pay taxes on your winnings? Otherwise, you'd be just another lowlife criminal.

Kind of the same reason water doesn't roll up hill eh?

I was in the Redwoods, at a park,way back when, and water rolled uphill.

Don't hand me that I'm Black and deserve whatever shit. [

Another blip from the pool of profundity.

[Android Bishop]

Another blip from the pool of profundity.

you aren't doing much better

[scott nathaniel]

Another blip from the pool of profundity.

you aren't doing much better

What more is there to say. We disagree with each other. we both know nothing we're going to say will change our minds, and I don't believe it's arrogance as much as fundamental difference in philosphy, so the idea of a discussion is pretty much a ruse, at this point. The dude above said he's sick of hearing it, so why continue trying to say it.

[Android Bishop]

Another blip from the pool of profundity.

you aren't doing much better

What more is there to say. We disagree with each other. we both know nothing we're going to say will change our minds, and I don't believe it's arrogance as much as fundamental difference in philosphy, so the idea of a discussion is pretty much a ruse, at this point. The dude above said he's sick of hearing it, so why continue trying to say it.

I dont believe in "fundamental differences of philosophy." I believe in ideas that logically connect to each other to form the framework of a larger idea or argument. I dont want to sit here having a "well i prefer brunettes over blondes" I think this you think that discussion, I want this to build a framework of reason to come to a better conclusion. This requires that both sides attempt to create strong ideas/rationale that connects to other ideas/arguments, and ideas that dont connect get killed. Saying "well this is what I believe and nobody is going to convince me or you otherwise" is a cop out. I'm open to changing my mind about this, but I require a real discussion that establishes a argumentative framework that disconnects my ideas and provides a stronger, more reasonable foundation of logic than the one I have laid out. I am putting forth an effort to maintain a logical consistency with my arguments and to connect them as much as possible to the bigger idea, that is all I can ask for from the counter argument.

[starving student]

wow looks like the gangs all here,

@DrXparaMental: what are you talking about dude, by the looks of where the conversation is now I don't believe anyone is saying what you're saying. currently the discussion isn't so complex that we should be outright detracting already, look at the questions I've asked of our generous friend Android, he hasn't answered them yet, and currently he is talking about anything but objectivism, he's talking about not wanting to have legislation that's intended to fight racial injustice, or racialy based programs meant to level a playing field which you are saying as well, you're not saying anything about Racism and how a law abiding society who pays it's taxes to deal with such things would go about dealing with such things, all you are saying is that legislation to fight racism is a bad thing. thats what civilized people do, they draft up legislation to fight all of the injustices in our society because it's not a good idea to just let a black person go and knock you in the head for firing them just because they are black or not letting them into a school because they are black.

another thing that hasn't been answered yet if all race based legislation is eliminated like you and android want will the playing field be even then?
if so great, if not then how do you expect people who are being descriminated against to go about solving the problem, do you think violence is better than legislation, what in your mind is better than legislation??????

it doensn't matter if 9 out of 10 black people from every poor black neighborhood become president what has that got to do with racism. If I apply for a job today and get descriminated against, if i get discrimintated against by a police officer or by our judicial system or racialy descriminated against by some landlord it won't mean a thing that barack obama is president.....you guys must be joking talking shit like that, all of the great black people in this nation that came out of poor black neighborhoods and became great things didn't do anything to stop some racist from trying to kill our first black president because he is black they wanted to blow him up and kill his family, you know what did do something
about it, the laws and legislation that we have to fight such things, there was a time when it was not against the law to kill a black man and his family, there was a time when black people were not even people by law, thank god for the laws that gave us some affirmative action on having life.

android is at least outright skipping the parts he doesn't want to discuss so he's not pulling anyones leg but don't start detracting man cause the discussion deserves better than that.

[scott nathaniel]

I dont believe in "fundamental differences of philosophy." I believe in ideas that logically connect to each other to form the framework of a larger idea or argument. I dont want to sit here having a "well i prefer brunettes over blondes" I think this you think that discussion, I want this to build a framework of reason to come to a better conclusion. This requires that both sides attempt to create strong ideas/rationale that connects to other ideas/arguments, and ideas that dont connect get killed. Saying "well this is what I believe and nobody is going to convince me or you otherwise" is a cop out. I'm open to changing my mind about this, but I require a real discussion that establishes a argumentative framework that disconnects my ideas and provides a stronger, more reasonable foundation of logic than the one I have laid out. I am putting forth an effort to maintain a logical consistency with my arguments and to connect them as much as possible to the bigger idea, that is all I can ask for from the counter argument.

Fine,
Let's take one issue, since there are many.
Prison population. I could not verify who in prison is deserving or not, black, white, whichever color, so that's off the table. But I do know that there are a lot of people who are not in prison that should be. This seems to be, though hard to verify as an absolute , almost equally based on race as it is economic and social standing. If poor people are more likely to committ crimes, as you say, and a large portion of the poor population are blacks, then they have two things slanted against them. Now, when you say crime, that crime can be anything from stealing a pop cycle to murder. can't really have much pity for the murderer, regardless of race, but petty crimes are of a different nature. So, let's put aside race and focus on economics, since you believe that is the true issue. Poor people will more likely end up in prison than someone with a good lawyer, most likely, right. So the prison population will inevitably become populated with more people from the same class, essentially. This doesn't mean they're not guilty, it just means that the population of prison isn't a true representation of criminality within classes. They're just exposed more. Some would then say I'm now being sympatheic towards criminals, when actually I'm attempting to shine light a possible imbalance of justice. I'm not trying to keep people out of prison, I'm trying to get more in But, seriously, one can't call for the equla justice in our school sytem and not call for it in our legal system as, well.

[scott nathaniel]

I dont believe in "fundamental differences of philosophy." I believe in ideas that logically connect to each other to form the framework of a larger idea or argument.

This is what I get, logically from you. correct me if I'm wrong. I've put it in a syllogism, since you're fan of logic.

Poor people are more likely to commit crimes.
Black people make up the largest percentage of the nations poorest.
Therefore, black people are more likely to commit crime.

That's your logic, yes?

[DrXparaMental]

wow looks like the gangs all here,

@DrXparaMental: what are you talking about dude, by the looks of where the conversation is now I don't believe anyone is saying what you're saying. currently the discussion isn't so complex that we should be outright detracting already, look at the questions I've asked of our generous friend Android, he hasn't answered them yet, and currently he is talking about anything but objectivism, he's talking about not wanting to have legislation that's intended to fight racial injustice, or racialy based programs meant to level a playing field which you are saying as well, you're not saying anything about Racism and how a law abiding society who pays it's taxes to deal with such things would go about dealing with such things, all you are saying is that legislation to fight racism is a bad thing. thats what civilized people do, they draft up legislation to fight all of the injustices in our society because it's not a good idea to just let a black person go and knock you in the head for firing them just because they are black or not letting them into a school because they are black.

another thing that hasn't been answered yet if all race based legislation is eliminated like you and android want will the playing field be even then?
if so great, if not then how do you expect people who are being descriminated against to go about solving the problem, do you think violence is better than legislation, what in your mind is better than legislation??????

it doensn't matter if 9 out of 10 black people from every poor black neighborhood become president what has that got to do with racism. If I apply for a job today and get descriminated against, if i get discrimintated against by a police officer or by our judicial system or racialy descriminated against by some landlord it won't mean a thing that barack obama is president.....you guys must be joking talking shit like that, all of the great black people in this nation that came out of poor black neighborhoods and became great things didn't do anything to stop some racist from trying to kill our first black president because he is black they wanted to blow him up and kill his family, you know what did do something
about it, the laws and legislation that we have to fight such things, there was a time when it was not against the law to kill a black man and his family, there was a time when black people were not even people by law, thank god for the laws that gave us some affirmative action on having life.

android is at least outright skipping the parts he doesn't want to discuss so he's not pulling anyones leg but don't start detracting man cause the discussion deserves better than that.

WTF are you talking about? Can you please make one coherent statement. The discussion is larger than just what is racism. PLEASE. If you are going to attack something, attack it. Don't beat around the bush. Quote me and disagree with a specific pertinent reason why. You are just rambling. (dude)

[DrXparaMental]

Another blip from the pool of profundity.

you aren't doing much better

What more is there to say. We disagree with each other. we both know nothing we're going to say will change our minds, and I don't believe it's arrogance as much as fundamental difference in philosphy, so the idea of a discussion is pretty much a ruse, at this point. The dude above said he's sick of hearing it, so why continue trying to say it.

holy wimping out there Nate. First you glibly tip toe through the tulips of anything but an intelligent reply concerning what I posted and now this??

[starving student]

wow looks like the gangs all here,

@DrXparaMental: what are you talking about dude, by the looks of where the conversation is now I don't believe anyone is saying what you're saying. currently the discussion isn't so complex that we should be outright detracting already, look at the questions I've asked of our generous friend Android, he hasn't answered them yet, and currently he is talking about anything but objectivism, he's talking about not wanting to have legislation that's intended to fight racial injustice, or racialy based programs meant to level a playing field which you are saying as well, you're not saying anything about Racism and how a law abiding society who pays it's taxes to deal with such things would go about dealing with such things, all you are saying is that legislation to fight racism is a bad thing. thats what civilized people do, they draft up legislation to fight all of the injustices in our society because it's not a good idea to just let a black person go and knock you in the head for firing them just because they are black or not letting them into a school because they are black.

another thing that hasn't been answered yet if all race based legislation is eliminated like you and android want will the playing field be even then?
if so great, if not then how do you expect people who are being descriminated against to go about solving the problem, do you think violence is better than legislation, what in your mind is better than legislation??????

it doensn't matter if 9 out of 10 black people from every poor black neighborhood become president what has that got to do with racism. If I apply for a job today and get descriminated against, if i get discrimintated against by a police officer or by our judicial system or racialy descriminated against by some landlord it won't mean a thing that barack obama is president.....you guys must be joking talking shit like that, all of the great black people in this nation that came out of poor black neighborhoods and became great things didn't do anything to stop some racist from trying to kill our first black president because he is black they wanted to blow him up and kill his family, you know what did do something
about it, the laws and legislation that we have to fight such things, there was a time when it was not against the law to kill a black man and his family, there was a time when black people were not even people by law, thank god for the laws that gave us some affirmative action on having life.

android is at least outright skipping the parts he doesn't want to discuss so he's not pulling anyones leg but don't start detracting man cause the discussion deserves better than that.

WTF are you talking about? Can you please make one coherent statement. The discussion is larger than just what is racism. PLEASE. If you are going to attack something, attack it. Don't beat around the bush. Quote me and disagree with a specific pertinent reason why. You are just rambling. (dude)

you're lying. what i'm saying is clear, if you can't match my blacks in from poor neighborhoods talk with your own by yourself or match my talk about legislation up with your own by yourself then your priorities are clear. peace out

[starving student]

android man you've got some weak sauce on your team man don't let detractors speak for, I'm intrested in what you've got to say though so when you're ready man.

[scott nathaniel]

holy wimping out there Nate. First you glibly tip toe through the tulips of anything but an intelligent reply concerning what I posted and now this??

[starving student]

regarding some things you've already said though, you not getting into school that you deserve to get into
is definitely not cool neither is your mom not being able to fire someone not doing their job but in that case your mom has to man up , I know of a similiar case over at honda, they're afraid to fire this black chick cause they are afraid of getting sued, this lady doesn't do a damn thing all day long but talk on the damn phone and play videos and she threatened to sue if she got any trouble, finally they got tired of her shit and booted her, she tried to sue but could do nothing cause she didn't have a case to stand on. that's what your mom has to look at, if dude has no case to stand on he should be booted easily but if the place has a history of discriminating against people then the situation is more difficult.

[starving student]

so basicly man what I'm saying is this, the playing field is not level cause you feel like you're being denied access to things in this society, and the playing field has not been level for black people since they got to this country.....never, there never was such a thing as the good ole days for black people here, this place is full of imigrants like your grandparents and full of romantic stories about ellis island. but thats not how black people got here. What I would like is for the playing field to be level for you and the black people that want to go to your school but how do we make that happen with out legislation, we've already proven that we (leaders of these institutions) won't do it on our own so how should it be done?

I sure as hell don't think the solution is to leave it up to those people who believe that racism is a characteristic inherent in us , people might be born gay but people are not born hating other people, these things are learned, you've got to study to be able to opress people.

[Android Bishop]

I dont believe in "fundamental differences of philosophy." I believe in ideas that logically connect to each other to form the framework of a larger idea or argument.

This is what I get, logically from you. correct me if I'm wrong. I've put it in a syllogism, since you're fan of logic.

Poor people are more likely to commit crimes.
Black people make up the largest percentage of the nations poorest.
Therefore, black people are more likely to commit crime.

That's your logic, yes?

A) I do not assert that black people make up the largest percentage of the nation's poor (they might but I wouldn't know). That all depends on what city you are in. I do think that minorities make up the largest percentage of the nations poor.

B) I think the poor are the most likely to commit a wide array of crimes as well as lack the resources to adequately defend themselves, so I think minorities are more likely to represent a larger population of prisoners in the country. Which they do. BTW when I was in prison, mexicans represented the largest population. Not important but just to let you know.

C) You are skipping over the most important part: if one targets the root of the problem (wealth or lack thereof) one can attempt to bridge these divides WITHOUT making race the issue. If you establish a scholarship fund for X's or if you require that schools admit a certain percentage of X's and Y's over others you are only continuing to establish race divides that are even more difficult to get rid of. It would be better just to have low income scholarships that do not favor any race over another, or make school acceptance based on merit rather than demographics. This also goes for social stigmas too, like the idea that X comedians can spend an hour being racist on stage but C comedians can't, or that if an X person gets fired from a C boss they can easily sue for racial discrimination but a C person can't do that if they get fired from an X boss. If you want racial equality, you have to do it via methods that actually treat EVERYONE equally.