Ableton Forum

Kudos to the other sober people who posted - ALL of you guys gave solid advise: because you've been there, and in your collective Herculean efforts to get sober you actually LEARNED about the disease of alcoholism/addiction!

There's a famous passage from the Big Book: "if you think you have a problem with alcohol, then you probably do." Any attempt to "count how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin" as far as attempting to define what "constitutes" a "problem drinker" an "alcoholic" is usually just an attempt to justify one's OWN excessive drinking. It's a hallmark of alcoholism: "I'm not an alcoholic because [fill in the box i.e., "I don't drink the morning", "I only drink beer", etc. ad infinitum]...and going down that road with a THIRD party (as was done on this thread) is armchair psychiatry, pure & simple - that's why I reacted so viscerally to Rave's advise. I wasn't getting down on you, Rave - I did the same thing when I was drinking (i.e., telling my drinking buddies: "you're not an alcoholic...you're not laying in the gutter pissing your pants, bro!") - of course, you had to take it down to the level of name-calling (Quote "Nothing personal I blame your bad upbringing. knut.") once people started dog-piling onto your poor advise.

Once again: "if you think you have a problem with alcohol, then you probably do"

To the OP: Seek professional counseling, look into recovery groups, focus on your spiritual life - whatever works for you, do it. There is no "one way" to beat the disease of alcoholism, and beat it you MUST, because if you have an addictive personality, that shit will take you down...HARD. It may be sooner...it may be later - but it WILL take your ass down. I will say this: AA worked for me, as it has for countless others. It is "not for nothing" that the overwhelming majority of detox centers, rehabs, etc. implement the 12 steps of recovery. It is "not for nothing" that the US court system implements AA meetings with those convicted of drunk driving...simply put: it works. AA can seem daunting - for an alcoholic to grasp the concept that he simply cannot drink again is difficult, and the vast majority of those who come to AA do not recover...because alcoholism is a progressive and sinister disease. Only 1 in 10 actually "get it" - but those people are amongst the most happy, joyous & free people I've EVER met during my 54 years of life.

Does moderation work? Maybe for some...probably not for most. Case in point? MM - or "Moderation Management", an alternative program to the total abstinence approach of AA. Sounds great, huh? "Yep, I can drink again...just takin' easy." Founder Audrey Kishline thought that she'd "built a better mousetrap" - that is, until her premise (as outlined in her best-selling book) went into the shitter...after Ms. Kishline killed two people driving drunk.

As for the poster(s) who indicated that I was being presumptive in regard to the asshole who totaled (just heard back from the body shop - it WAS totaled) one of our brand new cars...please show me where I called him an alcoholic. I called him a drunk/idiot - which he was BOTH on Friday evening - and I will say this again: if you get into a car drunk, in light of all that we know now about the dangers of driving under the influence, you are not ONLY stupid, but you need to take a good, long hard look as your alcohol consumption. Period.

i will tell you all about my alcohol problem over a nice cold one if you would like.

djsynchro wrote:My advice: Get help. Addiction is one of those weird things where you're doing it yourself but feel unable to stop.
Help is available if you're motivated. Good luck, it will take you a while.

dont listen to this guy. he is just trying to stop the party.
i say if your not drinking you are going to do some other things to cure bordom like, poping pills or stuffing your face in front of the tube.
every one has some type of addiction.

serge_a_storms wrote:I don't know if I'm an alcoholic or not but I suspect I am. I can go days without a drink but as soon as I have one, I want to see it through to it's 'natural' conclusion. Although sometimes I have a couple and then just stop.

I'm also aware that I'm doing it. It's weird. Like I know it's wrong but I can't stop. I suppose that's why it's an addiction. But it's also like I want to punish myself, so I push it.

I'm not affecting anyone but myself. No one is suffering except me and even I'm not sure if I am but it's playing on my mind. So much so that after a few this afternoon I feel compelled to tell a bunch of strangers on the internet.

So, Is anyone willing to share there experiences of the run up to admitting they were an alcoholic?

pm. If you feel more comfortable. This is truly genuine.

I'm willing to share my problem, and also willing to share that there is a solution. That solution however means that you're going to have to make widespread changes in your life. Many people, myself included, find that when they quit drinking that they have to replace the bottle with something healthier. I'm not talking about a hobby, a significant other, or a new car. I'm talking about refined ways of dealing with things, practicing principles in one's affairs, dealing with broken thought processes that have long been a compliment to the substance abuse problem and most importantly, dealing with the wreckage that has been caused from one's habits, so as to offer closure to those touched by your addiction, and grant the alcoholic peace and serenity over their past.

The reality is, if you're an alcoholic, more than likely you haven't been the only one suffering. Many alcoholics believe that they're the only ones getting tossed around but are quick to forget the scared and terrified parents, wondering if their kid is going to pull out of the nosedive. The jaded and fed-up lover who continually has to deal with an absent, self-seeking partner. The employer who has too often had to endure their hungover, late or absent worker. Creditors who alcoholics have made promises of payment to and have never owned up to their end of the bargain. Children who endure day after day an angry, absent, passed-out, irresponsible parent. Indeed the alcoholic touches many lives and it takes so long to recognize this because either they can't see the repercussions, or they have blocked it out of their mind entirely. Once the bottle is taken away though, just like with all of our pre-existing deficits of character the evidence of the toll of our disease on our loved ones will become painfully apparent. Without help, those deficits of character and regret, remorse and shame will drive you back almost certainly.

I could disclose to you which recovery program I attend (daily and voluntarily) but the truth is that, whichever way to decide to seek recovery, if you're not willing to go to any lengths to stay sober, you're not going to. Recovery, just like active addiction, is hard work. It requires fearlessness and thoroughness. It requires taking an honest look at oneselves to understand the thinking problem which precedes the drinking problem. More than likely, alcohol has been a solution as much as it's been a problem. Alcohol's been the anesthetic that has made a life devoid of maturity and growth bearable. Perhaps the phenomenon of craving makes you powerLESS over alcohol, being that you can't stay away from it for good but it's the growth, maturation and spiritual cleansing gaioned from devoted and tireless work in recovery that makes you powerFUL in your defense.

Alcoholism is a self-diagnosis, it has to be. Alcoholism isn't only the homeless guy in the gutter that drinks daily, alcoholism is that entity in the background doing pushups on a night when you stay away, and jerking you around at will when you succumb and starting drinking. People get caught up and delusional in the idea that "a bad night doesn't equal a bad career" or "I didn't drinking tonight/I only had 2 drinks and left/I haven't drank in a week so I must not be an alcoholic" when in reality, all alcoholics drink differently and have different things happen to them while in their state of unchecked addiction. It is up to you to decide that you know with all of your being that you are always being relentlessly pursued by this disease, you have no adequate permanent defense and that it is time to seek, accept and practice the helping hand of a recovery plan. Otherwise you're just wasting quality drinking time, to be perfectly candid.

Whatever you're gonna do, decide to do it all the way or don't do it at all because you will not likely succeed in your attempts. I can tell you though in the spirit of hope and positivity that if you truly commit yourself to staying clean and changing your life, that the world's not going to stop spinning and life won't come to a screeching end. You're going to over time bear witnesses to miracles beyond your wildest dreams, be important in the lives of countless people and have tools to use that will help you get through any situation in life, bar none. I was 11 months sober when my dad died and by the time I'd moved through the grief I was actually counting my blessings. I was thankful to have been at his side sober, a man of which he'd long hoped for but perhaps never thought he'd get to see. I was able to be a source of strength for my sisters, who I'd long ago lost credit with. And at the end of it, all that was left was a simple prayer -- "God, dad, thank you for this opportunity to be someone of purpose and usefulness, and thank you for giving me an experience that shows me that I can endure ANYTHING without having to go out and drink." Quite amazing stuff.

I wish you luck, and wish for you to experience the wonderful rebirth you'll experience that recovery has to offer you. Just don't be dishonest with yourself and make half-baked promises to yourself. Go all the way, and do it in faith that you'll be rewarded for your efforts in ways that you can't even comprehend.

Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help, you or anyone else reading this thread.

nathannn wrote:

djsynchro wrote:My advice: Get help. Addiction is one of those weird things where you're doing it yourself but feel unable to stop.
Help is available if you're motivated. Good luck, it will take you a while.

dont listen to this guy. he is just trying to stop the party.
i say if your not drinking you are going to do some other things to cure bordom like, poping pills or stuffing your face in front of the tube.
every one has some type of addiction.

There are a few people that I think would disagree. Such as...

* Herb Abrams - professional wrestling promoter, heart complications brought on by drug abuse.
* Nick Adams (36) - actor, drug overdose.
* Stuart Adamson - musician, Big Country, self-asphyxiation under the influence of alcohol.
* Kerry Gene Adkisson (33) - professional wrestler, suicide, after arrest for cocaine possession and drug problems.
* Michael Brent Adkisson (23) - professional wrestler, suicide, overdosed on tranquilizers.
* Ry?nosuke Akutagawa (35) - writer, committed suicide by overdosing on barbiturates.
* Dennis Allen - infamous drug dealer, drug induced heart failure.
* GG Allin (36) - punk musician, heroin overdose.
* Bridgette Andersen (21) former child actress, alcohol and heroin overdose.
* Pier Angeli (39) Italian-born actress, died of anaphylactic shock after being given a tranquilizer by her doctor.
* Matthew Ansara - actor and bodybuilder, heroin overdose.
* Chris Antley - champion horse-racing jockey, drug-related causes.
* West Arkeen - musician, drug overdose.
* Howard Arkley - painter, drug overdose.
* Kevyn Aucoin - photographer & make-up artist, kidney and liver failure due to Tylenol toxicity, due to prescription painkillers addiction.



* Chet Baker (58) - jazz trumpeter and singer.
* Florence Ballard (32) - musician, The Supremes, cardiac arrest strongly exacerbated by long-term drug abuse.
* Lester Bangs (33) - musician, writer, overdose of painkillers, possibly accidental.
* Jean-Michel Basquiat (27) - painter, heroin overdose.
* Scotty Beckett (38) - American former child actor, suicide, barbiturate overdose.
* Steve Bechler - Major League Baseball pitcher, after using the drug ephedra.
* John Belushi (33) - of the Blues Brothers, actor, and comedian, heroin and cocaine overdose (speedball).
* Wes Berggren - musician, Tripping Daisy.
* George Best (59) - ex-footballer with Manchester United, multiple organ failure exacerbated by chronic long-standing alcoholism.
* Leah Betts (18) - schoolgirl, ecstasy related.
* Len Bias (22) - basketball star; died of cocaine overdose before ever playing in the NBA.
* Bam Bam Bigelow (45) - professional wrestler, toxic levels of cocaine and temazepam.
* Count Gottfried von Bismarck (44) - Aristocrat, suspected drug overdose.
* Mike Bloomfield (36) - blues guitarist, heroin overdose.
* Tommy Bolin (25) - musician, Deep Purple, drugs overdose and/or alcohol poisoning.
* John Bonham (32) - musician Led Zeppelin, alcohol related asphyxiation caused by choking on his own vomit.
* Christopher Bowman (40) - former professional ice skater, possible prescription drug overdose.
* Elisa Bridges (29) - model, acute intoxication - combined effects of heroin, methamphetamine, meperidine and alprazolam.
* Erik Brødreskift (30) - musician, Borknagar,Gorgoroth,and Immortal, suicide - pill overdose.
* Lenny Bruce (40) - comedian, morphine overdose.
* Tim Buckley (28) - rock and roll musician, heroin overdose.
* Chad Butler (aka "Pimp C") - rap musician, accidental overdose of Promethazine/Codeine "syrup" mixed with a pre-existing medical condition, sleep apnea[1][2].
* Paul Butterfield (44) - musician, drug and alcohol overdose.



* Andrés Caicedo (25) - writer, drug overdose, possibly suicide.
* Toy Caldwell - musician, Marshall Tucker Band.
* Casey Calvert - guitarist of Hawthorne Heights, accidental drug overdose through mixture of opiates, citalopram, and clonazepam.
* Ken Caminiti (41) - former Major League Baseball player; acute cocaine and opiates intoxication.
* Max Cantor - journalist, actor, heroin overdose, he became an addict while researching addicts in New York.
* Truman Capote (59) - writer, liver disease complicated by phlebitis and multiple drug intoxication.
* Sonny Clark - musician, hard bop pianist, heroin overdose.
* Steve Clark (30) - musician, Def Leppard, accidential death (anti-depressants, painkillers and alcohol).
* Montgomery Clift - actor, heart attack due to severe alcoholism and drug abuse.
* Natasha Collins (31) - actress - cocaine overdose.
* Brian Cole - musician, the Association, heroin overdose.
* Brian Connolly - musician, Sweet, liver damage caused by long-term substance abuse and chronic alcoholism.
* Megan Connolly (27) - actress, heroin overdose.
* Pamela Courson - common law wife of Jim Morrison of The Doors, heroin overdose.
* Carl Crack (30) - musician, Atari Teenage Riot, drug overdose.
* Darby Crash (22) - punk musician, of The Germs, suicide by heroin overdose.
* Robbin Crosby (42) - musician, ex-Ratt, contracted HIV as a result of long-time heroin addiction and died of a heroin overdose.



* Dalida (54) - singer, suicide, barbiturates overdose (sleeping pills).
* Dorothy Dandridge (42) - actress, singer, anti-depressant overdose.
* Jesse Ed Davis (43) - guitarist, session musician, drug overdose.
* Paul Demayo (38) - professional bodybuilder, heroin overdose.
* Teri Diver (29) - pornographic actress, cardiac arrest caused by overdose of migraine medication.
* DJ Screw (29) - musician, heart attack thought to be result of codeine overdose.
* Desmond Donnelly (53) - politician/ businessman/ journalist, suicide under influence of alcohol/ overdose of barbiturates.
* Tommy Dorsey (51) - jazz musician and bandleader, choked to death while sleeping with the aid of drugs.
* John Dougherty - musician, Flipper, heroin overdose.
* Eric Douglas - stand-up comedian, "acute intoxication" by the effects of alcohol, tranquilizers and painkillers.
* Nick Drake (26) - musician, anti-depressant overdose, disputed suicide.
* Michael Dransfield (24) - poet, heroin overdose.
* Kevin DuBrow (52) - rock vocalist, cocaine overdose.
* Bobby Duncum, Jr. - professional wrestler, prescription drug overdose.
* Anthony Durante - professional wrestler, drug overdose.



* Jeanne Eagels (35) - actress, alcohol and/or heroin abuse.
* John Entwistle (57) - musician, bassist for the Who, died from heart failure brought upon by cocaine use.
* Brian Epstein (32) - Manager of The Beatles, accidental sleeping pill overdose.
* Howie Epstein (47) - musician, ex-bassist with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, heroin overdose[3].



* Chris Farley (33) - comedian who rose to fame on Saturday Night Live, cocaine and morphine overdose (speedball).
* Pete Farndon (31) - musician, the Pretenders, drowned/ heroin overdose.
* Rainer Werner Fassbinder - playwright, director, cocaine overdose (possible suicide).
* Brenda Fassie (39) - singer, cocaine overdose.
* Keith Ferguson - musician, the Fabulous Thunderbirds.
* Althea Flynt - co-publisher of Hustler magazine, drowned after passing out after drug overdose.
* Zac Foley (31) - musician, EMF, heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, temazepam, barbiturates and alcohol in bloodstream.
* Katy French (24) - supermodel and socialite, cocaine use.
* Sigmund Freud (83) - neurologist, long-term cocaine use, physician assisted morphine overdose (euthanasia).



* Rory Gallagher (47) - musician, Taste, died of pnemonia and a liver failure, caused by side effects of a combination of doctor-prescribed drugs.
* Paul Gardiner - musician, Tubeway Army, drug overdose.
* Judy Garland (47) - singer and actress, disputed drug overdose as cause of death.
* Lowell George (34) - musician, Little Feat, heart attack - habitual drug abuse probable cause.
* Talitha Getty (30) - actress (Barbarella) and socialite (Wife of John Paul Getty Jr), heroin overdose in Rome 1971.
* Andy Gibb (30) - singer, younger brother of the Bee Gees; cardiac damage strongly exacerbated by cocaine and alcohol abuse.
* Simon Gipps-Kent - actor, morphine poisoning, suspected drug overdose.
* Trevor Goddard (40) - former professional boxer turned actor, cocaine, heroin, hydrocodone, and diazepam overdose.
* Dwayne Goettel (31) - musician, Skinny Puppy, heroin overdose.
* Paul Gonsalves (53) - jazz tenor saxophonist, Duke Ellington, narcotics overdose
* Gribouille (26) - singer, drugs overdose.



* Clinton Haines - noted computer hacker, heroin overdose on 21st birthday.
* Bobby Hatfield - musician, The Righteous Brothers, heart attack triggered by cocaine overdose.
* Tim Hardin - folk musician, heroin and morphine overdose.
* Brynn Hartman - wife and murderer of comedian Phil Hartman, suicide after cocaine and alcohol.
* Phyllis Haver - actress, intentional barbiturate overdose
* James Hayden (29) - actor, heroin overdose.
* Joey Hawthorne - professional poker player, drug overdose.
* Eddie Hazel - musician, guitarist, of the P-funk collective, liver failure.
* Mitch Hedberg - comedian, multiple drug toxicity (cocaine and heroin).
* Tim Hemensley - indie musician, member of GOD, heroin overdose
* Margaux Hemingway (41) - actress, disputed suicide, overdose of phenobarbital.
* Jimi Hendrix (27) - rock and roll musician, respiratory arrest caused by alcohol and barbiturate overdose and vomit inhalation.
* Curt Hennig - professional wrestler, cocaine overdose.
* Gino Hernandez (28) - wrestler, cocaine overdose.
* Randy Jo Hobbs - musician.
* Abbie Hoffman - self-identified communo-anarchist, social and political activist in the United States, suicide by overdose of Phenobarbital pills
* El Duce Hoke - musician, drummer and singer in the Mentors, hit by train when alcohol intoxicated (disputed murder theories).
* Hollywood Fats - musician, heroin overdose.
* Gary Holton (33) - actor, Auf Wiedersehen, Pet, alcohol and morphine overdose.
* James Honeyman-Scott - musician, the Pretenders, cocaine overdose.
* Shannon Hoon (28) - musician, singer in Blind Melon, cocaine overdose.
* Howard Hughes (70) - aviator, engineer, industrialist, movie producer, playboy, liver failure - autopsy showed lethal amount of codeine and also valium in body.
* Gertrude Hullett - died of barbiturate overdose while being treated by suspected serial killer John Bodkin Adams.
* Elizabeth Hulette (42) - professional wrestling manager, accidental overdose of alcohol, alprazolam, temazepam, oxycodone, hydrocodone, and anabolic steroids.
* Harold Hunter (31) - professional skateboarder and actor, apparent cocaine overdose.
* Phyllis Hyman - singer, suicide involving lethal amounts of alcohol and temazepam.



* Steven Ronald "Stevo" Jensen - musician, The Vandals, prescription drug overdose.
* Joëlle, American born French singer, drug overdose.
* Anissa Jones (18) - actress (played "Buffy" on American TV series Family Affair), accidential overdose of cocaine, PCP, methaqualone and secobarbital.
* Brian Jones - musician, the Rolling Stones, drowned, very likely due to alcohol and barbiturate intoxication.
* Rob Jones (a.k.a. The Bass Thing) - musician - former bassist of The Wonder Stuff, heroin/cocaine/alcohol overdose.
* Russell Jones (a.k.a. Ol' Dirty Bastard) - hip hop musician, accidential overdose, cocaine and prescription painkiller[4].
* Janis Joplin (27) - rock and roll and blues musician, heroin overdose.
* Rick "super-Freak" James (56)- Punk-Funk/Rock Legend Died August 6, 2004 of a drug induced heart-attack



* John Kahn - musician, Jerry Garcia Band, complications of heart disease, heroin, cocaine, and antidepressants found in his body.
* David Kennedy - fourth child of Robert F. Kennedy, cocaine and pethidine overdose.
* Bernard Kettlewell - lepidopterist and medical doctor, drug overdose.
* Dorothy Kilgallen, Irish-American journalist and television game show panelist, fatal combination of alcohol and secobarbital, perhaps concurrent with a heart attack
* John Kordic - hockey player, died during struggle with police after cocaine overdose.



* Alan Ladd (50) - actor, acute overdose of alcohol and hypnotic barbiturates, probable suicide [5].
* Arcadia Lake - pornographic actress, drug overdose.
* Barbara La Marr - actress, drug-related death in Hollywood.
* Karen Lancaume - pornographic actress, overdose of temazepam (suicide).
* Carole Landis - actress, overdose of barbiturates (suicide).
* Heath Ledger (28) - actor, accidental death Combined Drug Intoxication of various prescription drugs, including oxycodone, hydrocodone, temazepam, and others[6].
* Bruce Lee (32) - actor, martial artist, died of acute cerebral edema due to a reaction to compounds present in the prescription pain killing drug Equagesic.
* Gerald Levert - R&B singer, son of O'Jays singer Eddie Levert - accidental combination of prescription medications.
* Frank X. Leyendecker - illustrator, drug overdose.
* Debbie Linden - glamour model & actress, heroin overdose.
* Eugene Lipscomb - American football player, heroin overdose.
* Mike Lockwood - professional wrestler, choked on his own vomit after overdose of painkillers and alcohol.
* Trinity Loren (real name: Joyce Evelyn McPherson) - porn star, model, and stripper, accidental overdose of prescription painkillers.
* Bela Lugosi (73) - actor, drug-related heart attack.
* Zoe Tamerlis Lund - former child musical prodigy turned model, actress, and writer, heart failure due to heroin use.
* Donyale Luna (34) - first notable African American supermodel & actress, drug overdose.
* Frankie Lymon - musician, doo wop singer, heroin overdose.
* Aaron Lynch - writer on memetics, opiate-based painkiller overdose (coroner ruled accidental death.)
* Phil Lynott (36) - musician, Thin Lizzy, health breakdown caused by a heroin overdose. (speedball.)



* Billy Mackenzie - musician, the Associates, overdosed on temazepam, amitriptyline, and paracetamol (suicide).
* Chris Mainwaring - Australian Footballer, alleged accidental overdose.
* Bibek Maitra
* Sherri Martel - professional wrestler, accidental overdose with multiple drugs in her system, including high amounts of oxycodone.
* David McComb (36) - musician, The Triffids, heroin overdose.
* Jimmy McCulloch - musician with Wings, guitarist, heroin overdose.
* Robbie McIntosh - musician, Average White Band, heroin overdose.
* Clyde McPhatter - singer, complications of heart, liver, and kidney disease due to alcoholism.
* Aimee Semple McPherson - Canadian-born evangelist and media sensation in the 1920s and 1930s, overdose of prescription barbiturates.
* Jonathan Melvoin - touring keyboardist for the Smashing Pumpkins, heroin overdose.
* Amedeo Modigliani - painter, tubercular meningitis — exacerbated by poverty, overworking, and excessive use of alcohol and narcotics.
* Joëlle Mogensen - singer, drug overdose.
* Marilyn Monroe (36) - actress, overdose of barbiturate-based sleeping pills.
* Ken Montgomery - musician, D.O.A.
* Keith Moon - musician, the Who, accidental overdose on anti-seizure medication prescribed for alcoholism.
* Edith Alice Morrell - died of morphine overdose while being treated by suspected serial killer John Bodkin Adams.
* Chester Morris - actor, drug overdose.
* Jim Morrison (27) - musician, The Doors, heart failure, alcohol abuse (cause and fact of death disputed).
* Billy Murcia - musician, the New York Dolls, accidental suffocation after drugs and alcohol.
* Brent Mydland - musician, keyboardist, of the Grateful Dead, cocaine/morphine overdose.



* Delphine Neid - musician, The Nuns, drugs overdose.
* Joachim Nielsen (36) - rock musician in the band Jokke & Valentinerne, drug overdose
* Bradley Nowell (28) - musician, Sublime, heroin overdose.



* Hugh O'Connor - actor, of In the Heat of the Night TV series, suicide under influence of cocaine.
* Lani O'Grady - actress, of Eight Is Enough - multiple drug intoxication.
* Johnny O'Keefe - musician/ singer, heart attack after prescription drugs addiction.
* Christina Onassis - daughter of the billionaire Aristotle Onassis, pulmonary edema, caused by constant drug abuse and dramatic weight changes.
* Bryan Ottoson - musician, American Head Charge, accidental prescription-drug overdose.



* Marco Pantani (34) - cyclist, Tour de France winner; acute cocaine intoxication.
* Charlie Parker (34) - jazz musician; the official cause of death was (lobar) pneumonia and a bleeding ulcer, his death was hastened by his drug and alcohol abuse
* Robert Pastorelli (49) - television actor, heroin overdose.
* Gram Parsons (26) - country musician, of the Byrds and the Flying Burrito Brothers, overdose, purportedly of morphine and tequila.
* Chris Penn (40) - actor (Reservoir Dogs), brother of Sean Penn, heart disease and prescription drugs.
* Art Pepper (56) - jazz musician.
* Christopher Pettiet (24) - actor.
* Jack Pickford (36) - actor, syphillis & alcohol and drug abuse.
* Kristen Pfaff (27) - musician, ex-member of Hole, heroin overdose.
* Esther Phillips (48) - musician, singer, liver and kidney failure due to alcohol and heroin dependency.
* John Phillips (65) - musician, of the Mamas and the Papas, heart failure due to lifetime of alcohol and narcotics abuse.
* River Phoenix (23) - actor, overdose of heroin and cocaine (speedball).
* Jeffrey Lee Pierce (37) - musician, the Gun Club.
* Rob Pilatus (32) - musician, Milli Vanilli, drug overdose.
* Dana Plato (34) - actress, of Diff'rent Strokes, suicide - overdose of muscle relaxant Vanadom (carisoprodol)and Vicodin.
* Pola - model, appeared in Vogue and Cosmopolitan - heroin overdose in 1975.
* Darrell Porter (50) - professional baseball catcher (Kansas City Royals and St. Louis Cardinals) turned broadcaster, cocaine overdose.
* Elvis Presley (42) - singer, musician, actor
* Freddie Prinze (22) - comic, actor (Chico and the Man), self-inflicted gunshot wound while under the influence of Quaaludes



* Glenn Quinn (32) - Actor Angel (TV series), heroin overdose.


* Dee Dee Ramone (50) - musician, the Ramones, heroin overdose.
* James Ray - singer, drug overdose.
* Michael Reeves - film director, barbiturate overdose.
* Wallace Reid (31) - actor, flu caused by morphine addiction.
* Jimmy Reilly (17) - musician, Watertower West and Tony And The Tigers, heroin and alcohol overdose.
* Elis Regina (36) - singer, fatal alcohol and temazepam interaction.
* Brad Renfro (25) - actor, overdose of heroin and morphine[7].
* Ryszard Riedel (37) - blues and rock vocalist with the Polish band D?em due to cardiac insufficiency due to long time drug abuse (especially heroin)|
* Rachel Roberts (53) - actress - barbiturate overdose (suicide).
* Don Rogers (23) - American football player, cocaine overdose.
* Alma Rubens - actress, flu caused by heroin addiction.
* David Ruffin (50) - musician, the Temptations, drug overdose.



* George Sanders (65) - actor, barbiturates overdose (suicide).
* Catya Sassoon (33) - model and actress, overdose of hydromorphone and cocaine.
* Joe Schermie - musician, Three Dog Night, heart attack resulting from long-term drug abuse
* Ronnie Scott (69) - jazz tenor saxophonist and jazz-club owner, died accidentally from a mixture of brandy and temazepam.
* Jean Seberg - actress, barbiturate and alcohol overdose (suicide).
* Jason Sears - musician, Rich Kids on LSD, treatment with natural drugs.
* Rod Scurry (36) - Major League Baseball relief pitcher, cocaine-induced heart attack.
* Edie Sedgwick - actress.
* Bobby Sheehan - musician, Blues Traveler, drug overdose.
* Eric Show - baseball player, cocaine and heroin overdose (speedball).
* Pavlos Sidiropoulos - rock musician, heroin overdose.
* Judee Sill - folk musician, heroin overdose.
* Don Simpson - film producer, heart attack, reports of 20 drugs in his body at time of death.
* Tom Simpson - road racing cyclist, dehydration and exhaustion while cycling, amphetamines and alcohol usage.
* Hillel Slovak (26) - musician, Red Hot Chili Peppers, heroin overdose.
* Anna Nicole Smith (39) - Playboy playmate, actress, reality show star, lethal combination of chloral hydrate and various benzodiazepines.
* Daniel Smith (20) - Son of Anna Nicole Smith, part-time actor and director, lethal combination of methadone, Lexapro and Zoloft.
* Davey Boy Smith (39) - professional wrestler, heart attack - steroid abuse may have contributed.
* Freddy Soto - comedian, writer and actor, mixture of alcohol, alprazolam, and fentanyl.
* Louie Spicolli - professional wrestler, choked on vomit after drugs and alcohol overdose.
* Layne Staley (34) - musician, Alice in Chains, cocaine and heroin overdose (speedball).
* Joey Stefano (26) - pornographic actor, overdose of cocaine, morphine, heroin and ketamine.
* Inger Stevens - actress, suicide - overdose of sleeping pills.
* Rory Storm - musician, suicide - sleeping pills overdose.
* Margaret Sullavan (48) - actress, deliberate barbiturate overdose.
* Paige Summers - pornographic model & actress, a drug overdose from a combination of the painkillers codeine and oxycodone.[8]
* Screaming Lord Sutch - singer and politician, suicide following Prozac overdose.



* Zoë Tamerlis Lund - musician turned model, heart failure after sustained heroin and cocaine abuse.
* Warren Tartaglia (Walid al-Taha) - jazz musician & one of six founders of Moorish Orthodox Church of America, heroin overdose.
* Chase Tatum (34) former wrestler for the now-defunct World Championship Wrestling organization, apparent drug overdose.
* Vinnie Taylor - musician, Sha Na Na, heroin overdose.
* Gary Thain - musician, Uriah Heep, drug overdose.
* Jotie T'Hooft - poet, drug overdose, suicide.
* Johnny Thunders - musician, the New York Dolls, alcohol and methadone poisoning.
* John Thompson - poet, "a brutal mix of barbiturates and liquor."
* Georg Trakl - playwright, cocaine overdose.
* D. M. Turner (34) - author/psychonaut, drowned in a bathtub while on ketamine.
* Ike Turner (76) - musician/producer, died from cocaine overdose with high blood pressure and emphysema as contributing factors[9].
* Dick Twardzik - bebop jazz pianist, heroin overdose.


* Stu Ungar (45) - Three-time World Series of Poker Main Event winner, heart condition caused by long-term cocaine abuse.
* Enrique Urquijo - singer, drug overdose.



* Paul Vaessen - former professional footballer with Arsenal, post mortem found he had a high levels of methadone, heroin, temazepam, diazepam, and alcohol in his bloodstream.
* Lupe Vélez - actress, secobarbital overdose (suicide).
* Michael VerMeulen - magazine editor, drug overdose.
* Sid Vicious (21) - musician, the Sex Pistols, heroin overdose, disputed suicide



* Robert Hudson Walker - actor, died suddenly after being administered sodium amytal by his doctor.
* Shelby Walker (31) - female boxer and Martial arts fighter, apparent medicine overdose.
* Jeremy Michael Ward - musician, The Mars Volta, apparent heroin overdose.
* Dinah Washington - musician, singer, overdose of diet pills and alcohol.
* Dave Waymer (34) - American football defensive-back, cocaine-induced heart attack.
* Michael Weber - lead guitarist of The Seminal Rats, heroin overdose.
* Rachel Whitear - student, heroin overdose led to large-scale anti-drugs press campaign in Britain.
* Brett Whiteley - artist, heroin and temazepam overdose.
* Kurt Winter - guitarist with The Guess Who, kidney failure after sustained drug abuse
* Keith Whitley (33) - country musician, alcohol poisoning.
* Danny Whitten - musician, Crazy Horse, drug overdose or drugs with alcohol (disputed).
* Dale Whittington - racecar driver, drug overdose.
* Alan Wilson - musician, Canned Heat, drug overdose (possible suicide).
* Dennis Wilson (39) - musician, The Beach Boys, alcohol-related drowning
* Hank Williams (29) - musician, drugs and probably alcohol.
* Kenneth Williams (62) - actor, author and comedian of Carry On fame, overdose of barbiturates (accidental or suicide).
* Linda Wong - pornographic actress, overdose on alprazolam, chloral hydrate and alcohol.
* Andrew Wood - musician, lead singer Mother Love Bone, Malfunkshun, heroin overdose.
* Anna Wood (15) - Australian schoolgirl, cerebral edema, caused by water intoxication and resultant hyponatremia after taking ecstasy.


* Paula Yates (40) - British TV presenter & author, partner of deceased INXS star, Michael Hutchence, heroin overdose.




I could be wrong though. But I seriously doubt it.

Spikee wrote:

serge_a_storms wrote:I don't know if I'm an alcoholic or not but I suspect I am. I can go days without a drink but as soon as I have one, I want to see it through to it's 'natural' conclusion. Although sometimes I have a couple and then just stop.

I'm also aware that I'm doing it. It's weird. Like I know it's wrong but I can't stop. I suppose that's why it's an addiction. But it's also like I want to punish myself, so I push it.

I'm not affecting anyone but myself. No one is suffering except me and even I'm not sure if I am but it's playing on my mind. So much so that after a few this afternoon I feel compelled to tell a bunch of strangers on the internet.

So, Is anyone willing to share there experiences of the run up to admitting they were an alcoholic?

pm. If you feel more comfortable. This is truly genuine.

I'm willing to share my problem, and also willing to share that there is a solution. That solution however means that you're going to have to make widespread changes in your life. Many people, myself included, find that when they quit drinking that they have to replace the bottle with something healthier. I'm not talking about a hobby, a significant other, or a new car. I'm talking about refined ways of dealing with things, practicing principles in one's affairs, dealing with broken thought processes that have long been a compliment to the substance abuse problem and most importantly, dealing with the wreckage that has been caused from one's habits, so as to offer closure to those touched by your addiction, and grant the alcoholic peace and serenity over their past.

The reality is, if you're an alcoholic, more than likely you haven't been the only one suffering. Many alcoholics believe that they're the only ones getting tossed around but are quick to forget the scared and terrified parents, wondering if their kid is going to pull out of the nosedive. The jaded and fed-up lover who continually has to deal with an absent, self-seeking partner. The employer who has too often had to endure their hungover, late or absent worker. Creditors who alcoholics have made promises of payment to and have never owned up to their end of the bargain. Children who endure day after day an angry, absent, passed-out, irresponsible parent. Indeed the alcoholic touches many lives and it takes so long to recognize this because either they can't see the repercussions, or they have blocked it out of their mind entirely. Once the bottle is taken away though, just like with all of our pre-existing deficits of character the evidence of the toll of our disease on our loved ones will become painfully apparent. Without help, those deficits of character and regret, remorse and shame will drive you back almost certainly.

I could disclose to you which recovery program I attend (daily and voluntarily) but the truth is that, whichever way to decide to seek recovery, if you're not willing to go to any lengths to stay sober, you're not going to. Recovery, just like active addiction, is hard work. It requires fearlessness and thoroughness. It requires taking an honest look at oneselves to understand the thinking problem which precedes the drinking problem. More than likely, alcohol has been a solution as much as it's been a problem. Alcohol's been the anesthetic that has made a life devoid of maturity and growth bearable. Perhaps the phenomenon of craving makes you powerLESS over alcohol, being that you can't stay away from it for good but it's the growth, maturation and spiritual cleansing that makes you powerFUL in your defense.

Alcoholism is a self-diagnosis, it has to be. Alcoholism isn't only the homeless guy in the gutter that drinks daily, alcoholism is that entity in the background doing pushups on a night when you stay away, and jerking you around at will when you succumb and starting drinking. People get caught up and delusional in the idea that "a bad night doesn't equal a bad career" or "I didn't drinking tonight/I only had 2 drinks and left/I haven't drank in a week so I must not be an alcoholic" when in reality, all alcoholics drink differently and have different things happen to them while in their state of unchecked addiction. It is up to you to decide that you know with all of your being that you are always being relentlessly pursued by this disease, you have no adequate permanent defense and that it is time to seek, accept and practice the helping hand of a recovery plan. Otherwise you're just wasting quality drinking time, to be perfectly candid.

Whatever you're gonna do, decide to do it all the way or don't do it at all because you will not likely succeed in your attempts. I can tell you though in the spirit of hope and positivity that if you truly commit yourself to staying clean and changing your life, that the world's not going to stop spinning and life won't come to a screeching end. You're going to over time bear witnesses to miracles beyond your wildest dreams, be important in the lives of countless people and have tools to use that will help you get through any situation in life, bar none. I was 11 months sober when my dad died and by the time I'd moved through the grief I was actually counting my blessings. I was thankful to have been at his side sober, a man of which he'd long hoped for but perhaps never thought he'd get to see. I was able to be a source of strength for my sisters, who I'd long ago lost credit with. And at the end of it, all that was left was a simple prayer -- "God, dad, thank you for this opportunity to be someone of purpose and usefulness, and thank you for giving me an experience that shows me that I can endure ANYTHING without having to go out and drink." Quite amazing stuff.

I wish you luck, and wish for you to experience the wonderful rebirth you'll experience that recovery has to offer you. Just don't be dishonest with yourself and make half-baked promises to yourself. Go all the way, and do it in faith that you'll be rewarded for your efforts in ways that you can't even comprehend.

Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help, you or anyone else reading this thread.

Flawless response...flawless.

Save all your alcohol money and buy one of these.

Much better in every way...

Sphinx wrote:As for the poster(s) who indicated that I was being presumptive in regard to the asshole who totaled (just heard back from the body shop - it WAS totaled) one of our brand new cars...please show me where I called him an alcoholic. I called him a drunk/idiot - which he was BOTH on Friday evening - and I will say this again: if you get into a car drunk, in light of all that we know now about the dangers of driving under the influence, you are not ONLY stupid, but you need to take a good, long hard look as your alcohol consumption. Period.

You said "Hopefully, he'll seek help with his drinking problem after this..." I didn't say you calle dhim an alcoholic but you made a sweeping statement about him having a drinking problem. I don't know how you define stuff, but I would define alcoholism as an extreme case of a drinking problem. A one off drink-driving incident to me (and to most people I've discussed this with) does not indicate a drinking problem let alone alcoholism.

Well I went to the Doctors because I was having some problems with my arm.

He said I should take painkillers. Then he said "sometimes people have problems with alchohol - there are people who can help you with that if you want to give up".

This has been bugging me. Did I smell of booze? Did I have the guilty eyes of a drinker? I was drinking a lot then. But what did my arm have to do with it? I did it playing tennis.

brightonalex wrote:Well I went to the Doctors because I was having some problems with my arm.

He said I should take painkillers. Then he said "sometimes people have problems with alchohol - there are people who can help you with that if you want to give up".

This has been bugging me. Did I smell of booze? Did I have the guilty eyes of a drinker? I was drinking a lot then. But what did my arm have to do with it? I did it playing tennis.

Doctors have a responsibility to keep an eye out for drug-seeking behavior, as many painkillers can be abused. Maybe he was trying to be helpful, or maybe you had for whatever reason got on his radar, so to speak. Many doctors however don't understand addiction at all -- enough sessions in a recovery program and you'll hear horror stories of recovering addicts who suffered an illness or injury, got prescribed something that they never heard of (and thought that it wouldn't be habit-forming) and end up getting knocked off the wagon entirely because their prescription is actually a habit-forming medication. And all this, after communicating to their doctor that they're in recovery and need their doctor to keep that in mind when treating illnesses or injuries.

Hard to say what the doctor was implying there -- perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to ask him directly?

serge_a_storms wrote:I don't know if I'm an alcoholic or not but I suspect I am. I can go days without a drink but as soon as I have one, I want to see it through to it's 'natural' conclusion. Although sometimes I have a couple and then just stop.

Ayy? U sound completely normal?

Rave wrote:If someone thinks he has a problem with booze then he should go to the docs. He can ascertain if the guy is an alchy or not.

Good advice here, and this could potentially get the ball rolling for someone that needs to quit. The alcoholic in denial however will dismiss the doctor's diagnosis though and just chalk it up to the same stuff they get from nagging parents, jilted partners and their killjoy friends. I would as a caveat to this encourage some self-exploration so an alcoholic can make their own conclusion, otherwise that doctor will just end up being labeled the same way that you have labeled Sphinx -- a preacher.

It's cool though, I'm pretty sure that Sphinx probably expected that reaction from somebody. As do I, honestly. The OP wanted honest disclosure though and Sphinx responded in kind -- you can't knock him for that. Besides, when I make a bad decision in my life, it usually means that I'm wearing a tacky shirt, have a stupid haircut or have mad indigestion from a poor choice of food. Drinking and driving though should get moved from the "silly you" category imo and be treated serious. Believe it or not, people do actually get killed by drunk driving. My best friend would love to tell you all about it but he's been dead since 2001.

If I went to the Doctors, feeling guilty with a hangover, and said I thought I needed help with drinking, he would send me to the AA, and I would be told that by admission I had a drink problem, and must never drink again. If I could never drink again I'd feel sad, because I like the feeling of having had a drink, and I love meeting friends and drinking.

Pubs and drinking are the very cornerstone of British social intercourse. Hundreds of thousands of people go drinking at the weekend, sometimes to excess, and feel bad about it the next day.

But they haven't done it because they are addicted, they've done it because it can be brilliant fun. Hilarious conversations, honesty and opening up, bonding with people - if everyone that drinks is an alcoholic, then its no more pubs. And then what are we all going to do? Have a coffee at Starbucks? Go ten pin bowling?

A pint and a cigarette in the pub was the last luxury for the British working classes. Now cigarettes are banned, will all drinkers now be tagged as alcoholics in denial? Who will save out great British pint??

If drinking causes you or someone else pain, then cut down or stop. If you can't stop then get professional help stopping. But I don't accept that ticking yes to three of those questions means you are "definitely an alcoholic". Because that would have at least half of British people in rehab tomorrow morning.

brightonalex wrote:If I went to the Doctors, feeling guilty with a hangover, and said I thought I needed help with drinking, he would send me to the AA, and I would be told that by admission I had a drink problem, and must never drink again. If I could never drink again I'd feel sad, because I like the feeling of having had a drink, and I love meeting friends and drinking.

Pubs and drinking are the very cornerstone of British social intercourse. Hundreds of thousands of people go drinking at the weekend, sometimes to excess, and feel bad about it the next day.

But they haven't done it because they are addicted, they've done it because it can be brilliant fun. Hilarious conversations, honesty and opening up, bonding with people - if everyone that drinks is an alcoholic, then its no more pubs. And then what are we all going to do? Have a coffee at Starbucks? Go ten pin bowling?

A pint and a cigarette in the pub was the last luxury for the British working classes. Now cigarettes are banned, will all drinkers now be tagged as alcoholics in denial? Who will save out great British pint??

If drinking causes you or someone else pain, then cut down or stop. If you can't stop then get professional help stopping. But I don't accept that ticking yes to three of those questions means you are "definitely an alcoholic". Because that would have at least half of British people in rehab tomorrow morning.

You don't have to. It's a self-diagnosis. I don't see the relevance in gauging what other people do anyway, it's about your life, how you are affected and how you affect others. The british working class which everyone seems to clamor over can deal with their own lives, not like anyone is attacking them as it is. Regardless, if you check yes to more than 3 of those things... uhm, who would want to carry around a set of problems like that anyway? You may be able to check 3 and not be an alcoholic but I'd say you would be a bit foolish to check 3 and not recognize that perhaps some adjustments are in order.