Ableton Forum

[nis] wrote:Live is not the only DAW that suffers from plugin problems. Secondly, there are a few significant differences in how a DAW deals with a plugin. To give you a small example: Live allows you to set your own preferred plugin buffer size, whereas a lot of other hosts use fixed buffers. There's a known issue with a certain plugin manufacturer where using specific plugin buffer sizes causes memory violations in Live. As the plugin is overwriting memory that's used by Live, you'll get an instant crash. Never happens in hosts with fixed plugin buffers. This is just 1 example.

However, I don't wanna go on with this discussion here. My point is that you should contact us when you experience crashes because you're usually completely clueless why your software crashes. We can help you to find out more by parsing your crashlogs. In a lot of cases it is as easy as updating the crashing plugin to the latest version. Something you'd probably never think of when running 20 different plugins in a Live set.

^ oh great... now the Abes are making sense too...



WILL IT EVER END



@ pepezabala see what you started??

H20nly wrote: WILL IT EVER END

Never. It's an internet forum.

Dennis DeSantis wrote:
You may find this surprising, but the vast majority of our users don't hang out on the forums.

There are artists using Live 8.x in clubs, theaters, etc who have absolutely no problems. Ever. We know this because they tell us and because we go to their gigs.

The experience of some people in this forum - including yourself - may not match this. But this is hardly an indication that we're being dishonest or trying to cram PR nonsense down your throat.

Best,

My band's last gig will be at the Columbia Club in Berlin on 5/15 and I know quite a few Ableton guys that will be there. I hope you're right and Live doesn't crash because I will make sure to remind them of this post, hehehe!

Ken

Don't forget to bring some tar and feathers.

so is this release the one "including" the stability issues that were announced? or is that one still being worked on?

also, what exactly are these major stability issues that were being addressed? i'm just curious!

ps. ive been using live 8.1.1 on my one computer and havent had a crash in a while now!

Thanks!
RonC

ive not had live crash on me for a while also.

rpc9943 wrote:so is this release the one "including" the stability issues that were announced? or is that one still being worked on?

also, what exactly are these major stability issues that were being addressed? i'm just curious!

ps. ive been using live 8.1.1 on my one computer and havent had a crash in a while now!

Thanks!
RonC

You can go through the bugfix lists of the betas. Also, "stability" is always somewhat relative - what we try to do is mainly to
cover as many scenarios as possible where Live could crash, freeze etc.
This can not include problems with e.g. your OS installation, drivers, VST´s etc.
btw: this is a "candidate" for a release, so it´s not a "official" release version.

Best,
Christian

nebulae wrote:

carlosjhzapien wrote:a whole bunch of shit

cool, but did Live hold up through this epic trainwreck? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzod3CotfAg

this video is extremely funny until you realize the guy is serious..... then its like awwww lets give him some change.

Tone Deft wrote:^ooooh good call.

which plug-ins are crashing for you SubFunk?

oh, and thanks to the people that beta tested this release, I didn't.
/ducks

AU versions of the AAS bundle for instance and bias plugs (also AU) that work and worked fine in general in other hosts i use in the last 10 years.

[nis] wrote:Axel, first of all, Live is not the only DAW that suffers from plugin problems. Secondly, there are a few significant differences in how a DAW deals with a plugin.

sorry, with this discussion you spread oil into the flame.

i still don't get it, how can no plugin ever have cause a problem in over ten years of using audio software in ANY other host?

if there was ever a problem, then it was that a certain plugin simply does not work properly within the host, yes that has happened, but a plugin was never ever the reason in ten years (and i never ever heard from it in 20 years of being a sound engineer either) that a host is brought to it's knees, like live.

in none of the applications i used over the years.

Live is not the only DAW that suffers from plugin problems.

even i have no single clue about programming, but as a long time user i call bullshit on that!

secondly, if it is true and i am wrong, then why the fuck you do not change the way live handles 3rd party plugs?

or drop the support completely?

what the hell is the use of having it when it does not work, what is the use to argue it's all in realtime when it fucking crashes all the time`?

HE? PLEASE TELL ME?

get it sorted, fast, ultra fast, or admit and drop the shit.

the use of 3rd party plugs is more then just essential, either you get it sorted and change the way live handles it, or drop it (as hard as it would be)

the state now is unusable.

besides that you can't even assure the function of plugs from a company you bought technology and licenses of for your own suite instruments is embarrassing.

and you really spilled a lot of oil into the flame with this bullshit to blame 3rd party plugs.

i am super angry now, i never thought you would dare to point the finger on others, when the whole rest of the audio world can deal with plugs, except you.

arrggghhhh...!!!

nebulae wrote:
cool, but did Live hold up through this epic trainwreck? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzod3CotfAg

This guy is my new hero

SubFunk wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:^ooooh good call.

which plug-ins are crashing for you SubFunk?

oh, and thanks to the people that beta tested this release, I didn't.
/ducks

AU versions of the AAS bundle for instance and bias plugs (also AU) that work and worked fine in general in other hosts i use in the last 10 years.

I'm a little confused by the 10 year argument you keep bringing up.
Are you suggesting that you never experienced crashes like you do now in the software you used in the past 10 years and you are able to reproduce that with the current versions of that software on your current computer with the current OS?

Or are you suggesting you haven't experienced things like this in over 10 years, but actually haven't tried if plugin X of today actually works in DAW Y?

It should be an open and shut case. Do this, Live crashes. Do this, Logic doesn't crash. It beats making posts that need to be deciphered.

oblique strategies wrote:

nebulae wrote:
cool, but did Live hold up through this epic trainwreck? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzod3CotfAg

This guy is my new hero

That was sweet. Its what Bill Bailey would be when he really goes off the deep end

[nis] wrote:To give you a small example: Live allows you to set your own preferred plugin buffer size, whereas a lot of other hosts use fixed buffers. There's a known issue with a certain plugin manufacturer where using specific plugin buffer sizes causes memory violations in Live. As the plugin is overwriting memory that's used by Live, you'll get an instant crash. Never happens in hosts with fixed plugin buffers. This is just 1 example.

Hi Nico,

I am wondering if you guys have accumulated information as to which plugins require a buffer of particular size to work properly and if you could make this information public? I tend to work with minimal buffer sizes (32 samples for plugins, 48-64 samples audio), since I like to track with plugins, but I've noticed that certain VSTs will not function properly until I increase the plugin buffer. Sometimes this does not manifest itself until Live crashes. Would be great to have detailed list of "rogue" plugins wrt small buffers. Would probably help beta testing as well.

i am super angry now, i never thought you would dare to point the finger on others, when the whole rest of the audio world can deal with plugs, except you.

Hey Axel, calm down a little, it's to early this day to be so upset. Are you sure that is always the case ? I remember quite well that when i was on Mac and Logic there were plugins that fail the AU validation of Logic. Then the plug programmers came up with an update to solve it. So Nicos statement for me is comprehensible...