israel attacks gaza bound aid flotilla.

[Machinesworking]

Was the Gaza Flotilla Linked to Terrorists?
http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/declassif ... ists-.html

Although I.H.H. is reportedly banned by the Israeli government, it is not on any U.S. anti-terrorist sanctions list.

Bruguière (who retired from the French judiciary three years ago and now helps run a joint U.S.–European Union project to track terrorist finances) says in 1998 he collaborated with Turkish authorities on a search of I.H.H. premises in Turkey during which weapons were discovered.

Cool, but did you see the photo of the "weapons" aboard the ships? Pretty much nothing that you wouldn't find on any ship....
Ties with Hamas if doing business with Gaza are inevitable since Hamas are the local authority. People tend to forget that they are the government in Gaza.

Whole thing could have been handled better, that's all.

[jsn]

A friendly reminder. http://ow.ly/1UzsO

A nice read. Israel Lobby and American Foreign Policy http://ow.ly/1UzDi

[LoopStationZebra]

Was the Gaza Flotilla Linked to Terrorists?
http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/declassif ... ists-.html

Although I.H.H. is reportedly banned by the Israeli government, it is not on any U.S. anti-terrorist sanctions list.

Bruguière (who retired from the French judiciary three years ago and now helps run a joint U.S.–European Union project to track terrorist finances) says in 1998 he collaborated with Turkish authorities on a search of I.H.H. premises in Turkey during which weapons were discovered.

Cool, but did you see the photo of the "weapons" aboard the ships? Pretty much nothing that you wouldn't find on any ship....
Ties with Hamas if doing business with Gaza are inevitable since Hamas are the local authority. People tend to forget that they are the government in Gaza.

Whole thing could have been handled better, that's all.

As I mentioned earlier, there should not have been so much as a steak knife on board. There also should have been an agreement that, in the event of an IDF attack, everyone hits the fucking deck in the prone position as a demonstration of peaceful protest and solidarity. You are either on a mission of mercy and peace, or you are not. This was a mission alright; just not the kind it should have been.

And Mahmoud Abbas is at least one chap who hasn't forgotten that Hamas is in charge of Gaza.

[Machinesworking]

As I mentioned earlier, there should not have been so much as a steak knife on board.

That literally is all there was. It's pretty silly really, they're showing freaking pipe fitting tools in the vids.....
"Hey wait! hold him down, now move his finger into the hole. OK Bob, you got the handles now squeeze!"

There also should have been an agreement that, in the event of an IDF attack, everyone hits the fucking deck in the prone position as a demonstration of peaceful protest and solidarity. You are either on a mission of mercy and peace, or you are not. This was a mission alright; just not the kind it should have been.:

Meh, one ship with some pissed off people in it, and a crazy half assed plan to subdue by the IDF does not lay blame entirely on the protestors. Though I agree proper procedure would have made sense, it also wouldn't have made the news at all. Boats get inspected by the IDF, most if not all cargo doesn't make it into Gaza, business as usual, nothing for the news to report....

[UKRuss]

Cool, but did you see the photo of the "weapons" aboard the ships? Pretty much nothing that you wouldn't find on any ship....
.

I noticed that, hilarious.

"Shit, we're in trouble here, get on board and make sure you find some 'weapons', lay them out on some arab looking flags and shit, make it look menacing.'

'OK'

'Great, what did you find?'

'Errr....some kitchen equipment and assorted stuff used for fixing ships...but we made it look menacing by putting it on a saudi flag and piling it in a way to make it look menacing'


Just really fucking nasty operation. Religion, when will it end? 2000 years after Christ dies and we've still got all this shit, ridiculous. Flat earthers the lot of them, wake up and smell the coffee. There is no god and you're all idiots.

[plantaginate]

religion isn't the problem. it's ignorance, greed, and delusion.

[ikeaboy]

Cool, but did you see the photo of the "weapons" aboard the ships? Pretty much nothing that you wouldn't find on any ship....
.

I noticed that, hilarious.

"Shit, we're in trouble here, get on board and make sure you find some 'weapons', lay them out on some arab looking flags and shit, make it look menacing.'

'OK'

'Great, what did you find?'

'Errr....some kitchen equipment and assorted stuff used for fixing ships...but we made it look menacing by putting it on a saudi flag and piling it in a way to make it look menacing'


Just really fucking nasty operation. Religion, when will it end? 2000 years after Christ dies and we've still got all this shit, ridiculous. Flat earthers the lot of them, wake up and smell the coffee. There is no god and you're all idiots.

In the aid seized from the Rachael Corrie that was confiscated as weapons their was 2 catscan machines, school books copies and pencil and cement.

I get your point about the first flotilla's steak knives LSZ, but their was 700 people on board those ships even if they were to live on soup they would of needed a can opener (which may of been used to get commandos out of their flack jackets assuming you weren't shot in the back of the head by one of their mates) The metal bars used were ship railings. Even if they were on child proof padded ships with no sharp corners many of the reports from people returning is that shots were fired indescriminatly from the air before commandos boarded. Expecting people to lie on the floor and take what evers is served up to them, human nature being what it is, some percentage are going to say 'fuck this' and fight back. These are civilian volunteers with no experience of been illegally held at gunpoint aand shot at, some peoples instinct will be to defend themselves and their friends and families even if the voice of reason is to think of the bigger picture.

[UKRuss]

religion isn't the problem. it's ignorance, greed, and delusion.

Wrong. Religion IS greed, ignorance AND delusion all neatly rolled into one packet of brainwashed mental illness.

This is Jews vs Muslims. Nothing more.

People want to make it more complex beause no-one has the bollocks to stand up and criticise relegion. I say it's time to change and call a spade a spade.

Jewish and islamic believers are deluded by their supernatural fantasies and this has led to national hysteria leading them to murder, nothing else.

If the one true goal of humanity is peace and love, then the one true enemy is religion.

It's the same on Planet of The Hsts though so...

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... e_hats.php

[plantaginate]

nah. i know plenty of muslims, Christians, even buddhists.
all religious people, none o them behave like this or condone this behavior.
time to review your ideas dude.
religion isn't the problem.

Jewish and islamic believers are deluded by their supernatural fantasies

dude, for real?
"these people claim to be jews and muslims, ergo all jews and muslims are like this?"
thats essentially what you're saying, am i wrong?

[3dot...]

religion isn't the problem. it's ignorance, greed, and delusion.

Wrong. Religion IS greed, ignorance AND delusion all neatly rolled into one packet of brainwashed mental illness.

This is Jews vs Muslims. Nothing more.

People want to make it more complex beause no-one has the bollocks to stand up and criticise relegion. I say it's time to change and call a spade a spade.

Jewish and islamic believers are deluded by their supernatural fantasies and this has led to national hysteria leading them to murder, nothing else.

If the one true goal of humanity is peace and love, then the one true enemy is religion.

It's the same on Planet of The Hsts though so...

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... e_hats.php

^^^
calm down..

belief is just a difference between groups of people...
those groups have differences in beliefs within them as well...
and those groups within them...etc..

what does it matter if the dispute is over this or that or another.. it's still a dispute..
and both sides hold an opinion which needs to be resolved

you can be religious and choose not to fight..
and you can be an atheist and choose to fight for a cause..

what you're claiming doesn't make sense...

the fighting will/does continue..
whether secular or religious..
in the name of certain 'ideologies'...

the bottom line is that leaders are trying to rally their public opinions towards some ends..
concentrating on the fear of 'different'.. is always easier..
rather than bridging the gaps between groups/people

every player in this Middle-Eatern "game" has a strategic agenda...
and 'god' has nothing to do with that..
regardless if (god) is truth or lie..

[ikeaboy]

It seems to me religion is used a lot in this case as a smokescreen to make a conflict seem intractable (i.e. 'this conflict has gone on for ages and will never be resolved') which sucks the energy out of peoples will to seek a resolution and to cover up greed, oppression and land grabbing. There are plenty of people alive now in the region who remember Jewish and Muslim families living side by side even babysitting each others children.

[LoopStationZebra]

There are plenty of people alive now in the region who remember Jewish and Muslim families living side by side even babysitting each others children.

this. This. THIS

[UKRuss]

I'm so damn glad I live in the UK. We treat religion with the respect it deserves.

None.

We're even in the process of reviewing the House of Lords and I am full of hope that the reform will include the expulsion of non elected church officials from parliament.

As I said before, you can dress it up however you want, but dressing up in a silly way to go to special buildings and sing silly songs to supernatural beings is insane. End of.

No-one would give any credence to anyone who believed in Ra or Neptune in the modern world would they?

What makes the 'modern gods' so different? There is no difference, only trend, Judaism, Islam, christianity are the big trendies at the moment. But thats all they are, trends.

I bet the Egyptians, Greeks, Myans and Romans thought their gods were real too. Wars were fought, people died and now where are their gods?

Nowehere, absolutely nowhere. Now, either they're real or they aren't.

No, hold on. You are right, I am missing something:

Gods only exist if enough people 'believe' in them.

Jews and muslims believe in make believe fairy stories, ergo, they are all slightly mad. This has nothing to do with whether or not they are intrinsically violent as individuals but to imagine it has nothing to do with Israels enforced imprisonment of the arabs living in the Gaza strip or the Hamas' desire to kill the Israelis is deluded.

I patronise my daughter for believing in fairy stories but she's seven. These are grown ups and we're supposed to tolerate their stupid, silly book stories?

I don't want to. I don't see why I should give it any more respect than it deserves. According to their 'special bopoks' I am either going to a place where i shall be tortured for eternity of worthy of being killed where I stand for not sharing their beliefs.

Sorry. But fuck off.

Really.

[funky shit]

I'm so damn glad I live in the UK. We treat religion with the respect it deserves.

None.

We're even in the process of reviewing the House of Lords and I am full of hope that the reform will include the expulsion of non elected church officials from parliament.

As I said before, you can dress it up however you want, but dressing up in a silly way to go to special buildings and sing silly songs to supernatural beings is insane. End of.

No-one would give any credence to anyone who believed in Ra or Neptune in the modern world would they?

What makes the 'modern gods' so different? There is no difference, only trend, Judaism, Islam, christianity are the big trendies at the moment. But thats all they are, trends.

I bet the Egyptians, Greeks, Myans and Romans thought their gods were real too. Wars were fought, people died and now where are their gods?

Nowehere, absolutely nowhere. Now, either they're real or they aren't.

No, hold on. You are right, I am missing something:

Gods only exist if enough people 'believe' in them.

Jews and muslims believe in make believe fairy stories, ergo, they are all slightly mad. This has nothing to do with whether or not they are intrinsically violent as individuals but to imagine it has nothing to do with Israels enforced imprisonment of the arabs living in the Gaza strip or the Hamas' desire to kill the Israelis is deluded.

I patronise my daughter for believing in fairy stories but she's seven. These are grown ups and we're supposed to tolerate their stupid, silly book stories?

I don't want to. I don't see why I should give it any more respect than it deserves. According to their 'special bopoks' I am either going to a place where i shall be tortured for eternity of worthy of being killed where I stand for not sharing their beliefs.

Sorry. But fuck off.

Really.

YEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

+1

[LoopStationZebra]

UKR on FIRE today, lol.

Well, dude. Be that as it may, religion ain't going anywhere anytime soon. Good rant, but.....