Wikileaks craziness

[beats me]

Maybe if the US govt acted in the honest, open, transparent and decent way it purports to then these kind of leaks wouldn't be necessary.

Also, to condemn Wikileaks as anti-american for releasing gun camera footage of civilians being used for target practice is a classic case of shooting the messenger. The needless killing of civilians is anti-american, in that it is against american interests.

Really? You guys are really that delusional and believe a majority of governments and wars past and present are a bunch of niceties and playing by the rules with complete transparency? And you're truly shocked by the content of wikileaks?

Wow, just wow.

And what are you fellas going to do with this new completely shocking knowledge? I know I would be thoroughly crushed and beyond disappointed if this news was actually news to me. I think I'd start by dismantling my shrine to the US, the society I believed was perfect on every level.

Any thoughts on what country my next shrine should be dedicated to? Surely you have one in the wings that deserves more admiration than the evil US.

Way to miss the point. I have absolutely no illusions about the realities of war. I have two friends who served in Afghanistan, both of whom are pretty fucked now. Horrible mistakes are made, people die, and you cannot expect troops to be able to see the big picture while making decisions under pressure.

However, the footage I'm talking about is a clear example of avoidable civilian casualties, and how technology has dehumanised the act of killing to the extent that it becomes like a computer game. It is in the interest (both militarily and politically) of the US to minimize this type of event.

My point is that the leaks do not represent some sinister anti-american plot. I know its easier to see it as such, but it really is more complex than that. For me, the reaction of authorities all over the world is what's interesting - not so much the contents of the cables themselves.

BTW if you think I'm some doe-eyed liberal ideologue hippy cunt (shrine to the US? LOL!!!!), you couldn't be further from the truth. I'm bitter, twisted, jaded and cynical, and most days I struggle to muster any faith in humanity at all. I'll guess I'll forgive you though because the internet is all about making unfounded judgements on people you've never met

You missed my point, actually a point I failed to make clear.

In summary, this kind of shit has happened in every war from all sides, but there just wasn't carnage cams and camera phones every 10 feet.

You can see far worse footage of fucked up shit happening to people that has nothing to do with war, and it won't get anywhere near the attention of wikileaks and by extension "see how fucked up the US is!".

I'm not whole-heartedly judging you or anybody in this thread, just making conversation while we play in the pool.

[necho]

Oh. It seems we're not actually arguing about anything.... how disappointing. I was hoping for a flame war.

[cmcpress]

You missed my point, actually a point I failed to make clear.

In summary, this kind of shit has happened in every war from all sides, but there just wasn't carnage cams and camera phones every 10 feet.

You can see far worse footage of fucked up shit happening to people that has nothing to do with war, and it won't get anywhere near the attention of wikileaks and by extension "see how fucked up the US is!".

I'm not whole-heartedly judging you or anybody in this thread, just making conversation while we play in the pool.

Sure - but the difference is that the other fucked up things that are happening every day, not to do with war, are not nesc. committed by people we elect into office. And if they are then we have a right to know about it.

All i'm saying is if Hilary Clinton is going to go over to China and complain about their human rights records and about the wonders of transparency then you better be sure that your own transparency record is on par with that which you espouse.