Ableton Forum

blanket i go name my kid.

he heee sh'mon

I take the point that classical music theory can explain such chord progressions. but It involves advanced concepts that most people do not know. I don't suppose that Otis Redding was thinking in those terms when he wrote the chords quoted in my previous post.


IMHO the most important thing for a composer / song writer to learn is the sound of the different chord types and cadences. This is best done by learning chords and scales and using them to play music in different styles.
If someone wants to learn to write in a particular style the best way is to learn to play in that style first. every style has its own rules as to what sounds correct or incorrect.

beatmunga wrote:Those with a sound education in music theory tend to make duller popular music than those that follow their ears/brains/hearts/ass.

We all know that.

Actually I think that having a music eduction isn't seen as very rock and roll, so most people play it down. Where I come from any kid seen taking piano lessons was "gay", and rock/pop acts go along with this idea so as not to alienate idiots.

However, in reality many of the best pop/rock comes from people with a solid education. Earlier somebody said "Eddie Van Halen never learned music". In fact the Van Halen brothers came from a classically educated family, their father was a Jazz musician and "Both Alex and Eddie Van Halen were trained as classical pianists in their childhood". However, one time Eddie mentioned that he disliked reading from scores and preferred to play his exercises by ear, and that was extrapolated out into the much more palatable "theory suckz bro, juz rock ouuutt!!!"

tldr; most writers of the classic tunes have music education, but it's uncool to say so.

beatmunga wrote:Those with a sound education in music theory tend to make duller popular music than those that follow their ears/brains/hearts/ass.

We all know that.

So why, oh why, do some people who exhibit the latter 'DIY' trait get all snobby and try and jump on the bandwagon of the 'proper' musicians, pretending to have a half-arsed understanding of centuries old music theory? Is it a yearning to be taken seriously as a musician?

Fuck it. Be one thing or the other. And earn respect for sticking to your guns. Otherwise it gets embarrassing.

Fucking ridiculous. How do I know? Becuase I am both. I was writing music and playing bass in bands at the same time as I was learning to read music playing low brass in concert bands. Then I went to college and then graduate school for jazz and music theory. I'm still there. But all the while I've never lost the ears and the heart.

It is possible to use your brain and your heart at the same time when it comes to making music.

Tone Deft wrote:

beatmunga wrote:Those with a sound education in music theory tend to make duller popular music than those that follow their ears/brains/hearts/ass.

We all know that.

So why, oh why, do some people who exhibit the latter 'DIY' trait get all snobby and try and jump on the bandwagon of the 'proper' musicians, pretending to have a half-arsed understanding of centuries old music theory? Is it a yearning to be taken seriously as a musician?

Fuck it. Be one thing or the other. And earn respect for sticking to your guns. Otherwise it gets embarrassing.

judgmental blanket statement.

The highlighted word 'tend' rules out absolutes. So therefore blanket does not apply.

'Judgemental' however, yes.

stringtapper wrote:

beatmunga wrote:Those with a sound education in music theory tend to make duller popular music than those that follow their ears/brains/hearts/ass.

We all know that.

So why, oh why, do some people who exhibit the latter 'DIY' trait get all snobby and try and jump on the bandwagon of the 'proper' musicians, pretending to have a half-arsed understanding of centuries old music theory? Is it a yearning to be taken seriously as a musician?

Fuck it. Be one thing or the other. And earn respect for sticking to your guns. Otherwise it gets embarrassing.

Fucking ridiculous. How do I know? Becuase I am both.

So are you saying you make great pop, stringtapper?

Angstrom wrote: in reality many of the best pop/rock comes from people with a solid education. Earlier somebody said "Eddie Van Halen never learned music".

Surely you've just proved my point exactly. I mean, VAN FUCKING HALEN...? Who gives a shit about them in the grand scheme of things?
Ironically, their most famous musical endeavour, 'Jump' relied for its hook on a cheesy (and rather excellent) synth riff. One that is played on all the white notes...

Were Daddy Van Halen's expensive pianoforte lessons the key to that riff?

beatmunga wrote:So are you saying you make great pop, stringtapper?

Did you read that anywhere in my post?

Or are you asking if I'm actually saying those words out loud right now?

stringtapper wrote:

beatmunga wrote:So are you saying you make great pop, stringtapper?

Did you read that anywhere in my post?

Or are you asking if I'm actually saying those words out loud right now?

I thought I did read it, absolutely so.

My post was about the link (or lack of a link) between trained theory and great pop.

You called my post fucking ridiculous because (in your words) you were the living embodiment of educated theorist, and I can only presume, great pop writer who makes ass and heart shaking tunes.

If I've misunderstood you, could you please clarify?

The words "great pop" never appeared once in your post.

I was addressing the two things you did mention: people who play with ears/heart, and those who have a musical education.

Perhaps you've misunderstood yourself?

And besides, subjective terms like "great" and "dull" are only that, subjective.

stringtapper wrote:subjective terms like "great" and "dull" are only that, subjective.

Music is subjective. It does not exist outside the human brain.

To reduce it to quantifiable theory is fascinating in itself but ultimately missing the point.

beatmunga wrote:Music is subjective. It does not exist outside the human brain.

To reduce it to quantifiable theory is fascinating in itself but ultimately missing the point.

But you contradict yourself. If music is inherently subjective then how can there be a definitive point to it for one to miss?

stringtapper wrote:

beatmunga wrote:Music is subjective. It does not exist outside the human brain.

To reduce it to quantifiable theory is fascinating in itself but ultimately missing the point.

But you contradict yourself. If music is inherently subjective then how can there be a definitive point to it?

There is no definitive point other than it entertains humans. Pop does so on a mass level. Hence the name.

My post claimed that musical theorists tend to make 'dull' pop'. You claim that you are a musical theorist who makes that claim 'fucking ridiculous'. So your music is the opposite of dull? Maybe not great, but at least 'entertaining'?

beatmunga wrote:

Angstrom wrote: in reality many of the best pop/rock comes from people with a solid education. Earlier somebody said "Eddie Van Halen never learned music".

Surely you've just proved my point exactly. I mean, VAN FUCKING HALEN...? Who gives a shit about them in the grand scheme of things?

Errrr, the person who used the as an example of someone who didn't learn music. My point was ... They did.

I can only hit the balls I am pitched