Ableton Forum

shadx312 wrote:The sequel will be Kruletapper as a teenager.

His weapon of choice: The radiation powered bicycle he built from nuclear reactor and hadron collider parts.

Clearly he takes after his mother.

Well I had keep your half alive somehow since you died jumping on top of a starving child to keep it from being hit by a meteorite.
Unfortunately it got crushed in the process.

So, after you get your response from Tapper, how do you propose we restore the planets health whilst maintaining the current world government's political/economic structure? /shoves mic in front of face

krulecello wrote:It's not personal but if you wish to take it that way then there is nothing I can do about it. Yours, Knotkransky's and a great many others 'take' on this issue, in my opinion is convenient and self-serving. If you were to face the real life consequences of your actions, your thinking on this matter would change substantially.

So, would you now like to answer the question, do you 'care' about the lives of others?

You're hurling insults, there's no other way to take that.

No biggie. As penance you can wait to see if I will answer your question.

stringtapper wrote:

krulecello wrote:It's not personal but if you wish to take it that way then there is nothing I can do about it. Yours, Knotkransky's and a great many others 'take' on this issue, in my opinion is convenient and self-serving. If you were to face the real life consequences of your actions, your thinking on this matter would change substantially.

So, would you now like to answer the question, do you 'care' about the lives of others?

You're hurling insults, there's no other way to take that.

No biggie. As penance you can wait to see if I will answer your question.

There's no other way you can see to take it, like your 'the solution' to Climate Change. I look forward to your honest response to my question, if you know yourself well enough to give one.

I hope for your sake you have more to look forward to than that.

The collapse of human civilization for instance.

shadx312 wrote:Well I had keep your half alive somehow since you died jumping on top of a starving child to keep it from being hit by a meteorite.
Unfortunately it got crushed in the process.

So, after you get your response from Tapper, how do you propose we restore the planets health whilst maintaining the current world government's political/economic structure? /shoves mic in front of face

In answer to your entire question, I don't propose that we restore the planets health whilst maintaining the current world government's political/economic structure.

In fact, I don't purport to have 'the' answer, nor does 'Kevin Anderson' claim to have 'the' answer (which is humbling, given his superior knowledge on the subject).

What Mr. Anderson and I both know (and many others around the globe who have chosen to go car and plane free), is that the facts (ie, not 'the' answers) are indicating that continuing a profligate energy consumptive lifestyle has a definite end conclusion, and the first to feel the effects will most likely be those that are already suffering because the way we currently live our lives in the wealthy nations. Being able to grasp this reality completely makes changing ones life[style] relatively easy. Most will do anything to avoid facing the facts, by pointing the finger of blame at governments or by choosing to view the situation in nihilistic and therefore futile way.

It doesn't have to be an all or nothing scenario, but it's obvious that we need to make some pretty big changes now. And some of the biggest and easiest changes to make now (for the majority of the population) are to not travel via plane or car.

The first thing I'd recommend, to anyone who claims to care about themselves or others, is to watch/listen to Kevin Anderson's talk. There are no graphic images of people dying or other end of the world fantasies, he's just presenting facts.

https://vimeo.com/62871951

stringtapper wrote:I hope for your sake you have more to look forward to than that.

The collapse of human civilization for instance.

I don't believe in hope.

krulecello wrote:

knotkranky wrote: Ya can't care about all humans dying. It's not sad that we do.

We breed like rats and die like flies. So, futility can't be excluded. Nope.

All I ask is that you keep your corpse off my lawn. I will then toast to you. If I know you.

... and then get back to the game. It's practically mandatory.

So, are you saying that it's acceptable for humans to knowingly kill other humans (as long as you don't personally know them) under the name of futility?

I'm saying people are dying all the time. Any country, any city, It's never been any different ever. Ever! As a matter of fact, you can get excited at the fact people are dying much less these days. Geez, thousands are dying every second and you're fucking around on a forum ffs. By your own standard, you should be ashamed of yourself. What can you do? Nada. It's fucking unfair all the fucking time. Futility isn't a name or a thing. It just is, by its shear definition. You want to bargin with futility? Knock yourself out. And you will. Want to really fuck up the world? Get everybody bummed about it all the time because they're not doing enough. No happiness, nice work. Listen, we still need you and your idealism, and we need stringtapper too. It simply balances that way. Wanna make it right? show everybody how to be happy by example. That's way better for the world imo.

krulecello wrote:

stringtapper wrote:I hope for your sake you have more to look forward to than that.

The collapse of human civilization for instance.

I don't believe in hope.

Now we're talking!

krulecello wrote: It doesn't have to be an all or nothing scenario, but it's obvious that we need to make some pretty big changes now. And some of the biggest and easiest changes to make now (for the majority of the population) are to not travel via plane or car.

IMO the easiest way to change things isn't to go car free, it's to go vegan.
First off animals specifically cows, through their flatulence and the cutting down of the rain forest to breed more of the things are the biggest cause of global warming. Oil is near it's peak, the electric car and other forms of transportation besides oil are right around the corner. Get people eating plants and the process itself would reverse the greenhouse effects.

The saddest part of this? it's not even a consideration for most people; people are that fucked that they would rather die early and fat than live healthfully and animal product free.

1. If this badly comrpessed PDF holds any merit, it says that the amount of methane humans produce isn't anything to worry about.

2. I don't see how going vegan would help the process, but just the opposite. If more people were vegan, less cows would be killed, thus more methane being produced.

Also, I'm trying to not space out with Andersons talk, not because I'm distracted, but the execution of the presentation. Lots of stats, but I guess I'm missing the the concrete resolution, unless I haven't gotten to it yet.
Ok well, I'm at the 43;00 mark, so maybe he's getting to it.

Going back to the methane production; what would really be nice is to have some safe genetic modification so during the digestive process instead of methanogens being formed, something like an algae breakdown process happens, or something /shrug

Ok, so the most tangible productive thing I saw was a list of vehicles with lower amount of CO2 emissions. The final point was nice, but that isn't aimed at Joe Everyman.
I think if to get the masses to consciously (as conscious as realistically possible) start getting "greener" is to bombard them with the instructions and processes and products that are the least intrusive to their everyday lives. It's sort of like having nothing on tv but presidential debates and making people feel divided and guilty so they'll vote mostly because the'yre bombarded by it from the media and they just want to get it over with.

So, we need more car commercials aimed at christian children showing them that the stuff coming out of exhaust pipes kills guardian angels which is why Evil has been winning for so long. That'll give the parents reason enough find a greener alternative.

knotkranky wrote:

krulecello wrote:

knotkranky wrote: Ya can't care about all humans dying. It's not sad that we do.

We breed like rats and die like flies. So, futility can't be excluded. Nope.

All I ask is that you keep your corpse off my lawn. I will then toast to you. If I know you.

... and then get back to the game. It's practically mandatory.

So, are you saying that it's acceptable for humans to knowingly kill other humans (as long as you don't personally know them) under the name of futility?

I'm saying people are dying all the time. Any country, any city, It's never been any different ever. Ever! As a matter of fact, you can get excited at the fact people are dying much less these days. Geez, thousands are dying every second and you're fucking around on a forum ffs. By your own standard, you should be ashamed of yourself. What can you do? Nada. It's fucking unfair all the fucking time. Futility isn't a name or a thing. It just is, by its shear definition. You want to bargin with futility? Knock yourself out. And you will. Want to really fuck up the world? Get everybody bummed about it all the time because they're not doing enough. No happiness, nice work. Listen, we still need you and your idealism, and we need stringtapper too. It simply balances that way. Wanna make it right? show everybody how to be happy by example. That's way better for the world imo.

Sorry, I completely missed the 'happiness' that you desire to share with others in your original post (see above).

To believe in the futility of things means that you are not responsible for any of your actions, shit just happens, right? It also means that I am not responsible for my actions, so if people get 'bummed' or feel 'unhappy' because of what I say it's not my fault, it's just the futility of life?

"An ideology is a set of conscious and unconscious ideas that constitute one's goals, expectations, and actions. An ideology is a comprehensive vision, a way of looking at things (compare worldview) as in several philosophical tendencies, or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society (a "received consciousness" or product of socialization).

Ideologies are systems of abstract thought applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political or economic tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought."

Do you not see, you are unconsciously (it would seem) ideological? (Don't worry, this is a rhetorical question, in that I already know how you are going to respond to it).

shadx312 wrote:
Also, I'm trying to not space out with Andersons talk, not because I'm distracted, but the execution of the presentation. Lots of stats, but I guess I'm missing the the concrete resolution, unless I haven't gotten to it yet.
Ok well, I'm at the 43;00 mark, so maybe he's getting to it.

He's a scientist, not an entertainer, so you will be required to think. The facts/stats in speak for themselves, if you understand them.

shadx312 wrote: So, we need more car commercials aimed at christian children showing them that the stuff coming out of exhaust pipes kills guardian angels which is why Evil has been winning for so long. That'll give the parents reason enough find a greener alternative.

Well, they put graphic images on cigarette packs in this country, why not do the same for cars (for the sake of equality)?

krulecello wrote:

knotkranky wrote:

krulecello wrote: So, are you saying that it's acceptable for humans to knowingly kill other humans (as long as you don't personally know them) under the name of futility?

I'm saying people are dying all the time. Any country, any city, It's never been any different ever. Ever! As a matter of fact, you can get excited at the fact people are dying much less these days. Geez, thousands are dying every second and you're fucking around on a forum ffs. By your own standard, you should be ashamed of yourself. What can you do? Nada. It's fucking unfair all the fucking time. Futility isn't a name or a thing. It just is, by its shear definition. You want to bargin with futility? Knock yourself out. And you will. Want to really fuck up the world? Get everybody bummed about it all the time because they're not doing enough. No happiness, nice work. Listen, we still need you and your idealism, and we need stringtapper too. It simply balances that way. Wanna make it right? show everybody how to be happy by example. That's way better for the world imo.

Sorry, I completely missed the 'happiness' that you desire to share with others in your original post (see above).

To believe in the futility of things means that you are not responsible for any of your actions, shit just happens, right? It also means that I am not responsible for my actions, so if people get 'bummed' or feel 'unhappy' because of what I say it's not my fault, it's just the futility of life?

"An ideology is a set of conscious and unconscious ideas that constitute one's goals, expectations, and actions. An ideology is a comprehensive vision, a way of looking at things (compare worldview) as in several philosophical tendencies, or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society (a "received consciousness" or product of socialization).

Ideologies are systems of abstract thought applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political or economic tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought."

Do you not see, you are unconsciously (it would seem) ideological? (Don't worry, this is a rhetorical question, in that I already know how you are going to respond to it).

OK, so satire ain't your thing. You're pretty humorless too. So tell me, what do you actually do to help people? You volunteer somewhere? Feed homeless? Give money to charity? Are you a person who helps strangers often? Ever save a life? You sound experienced so I gotta ask.

He's a scientist, not an entertainer, so you will be required to think. The facts/stats in speak for themselves, if you understand them.

You don't need to think to get stats, that's not the point. Who was he talking to? Did he have an audience or was this just to be put online? Who is it aimed for?
The 20 of the 80:20? The 5%? The 1%? Is it really just a detailed reminder that we need to be more conscious of our footprint? Just saying, in the end, how much of a productive effect did/does that make?

Well, they put graphic images on cigarette packs in this country, why not do the same for cars (for the sake of equality)?

Well I don't know if that works where you are but here that doesn't mean shit. And, btw, people know full well they are driving death projectiles that poison the air, plenty of people will drive them drunk or while looking at their phone, knowing full well how close death is looming, yet they still do it.

I'd love to think people would do something right for the sake that it's right, but it's been at least 3 decades knowing that we should be greener and how much we're fucking the ozone layer and it hasn't done a damn thing. So if you want to focus on the majority of changing a spec of their lifestyle to minimize their footprint, you need to make it fashionable, or guilt-causing, or economically rewarding, really anything except that it's just the right thing to do. And if you want that top 20% to do it, well, doesn't a large percentage of that show just how much they don't care?

I don't want to come off as defeatist or dismissive about it, I'm all for the fight of taking poison out of the air but I think if someone really wants to get things moving they're going to have to do more than just present some evidence and a couple of suggestions, cause THAT AIN'T WORKING.

Now if you know about a really goo effective organization that has a really good effective plan on making an actual positive tangible physical difference, and if they are transparent about the funds and donations they receive from people (something like Amnesty International?), maybe proceeds from a compilation album seem more like an effective start? Because I'm more into the idea that something like a collective should be started; one full of influential people, at least ones that don't have ties to any religion (including Scientology) that will can advertise on tv and you tube and cause the youth of the world to change their ways to minimize the footprint in their lifestyle and do things like donate or participate in things that will fuel an industry founded on minimal carbon footprint and geo-thermal energy. Like a huge PR campaign for the new natural resource of wind/water/solar machinery/factories,etc, run by people who give a fuck about life.

But it's not that simple when you have the oil industry embedded into the system and don't assume that once the old evil fucks die out everything will be hunky dory.
Rest assured they've got plans and bloodlines to keep their thing going regardless of what the natural resource is. A proactive extermination needs to happen to get that evil out of there, other wise it'll just be an endless battle of trying to keep the most of the last of whatever milkshake you have left.