Ableton Forum

As a Suite 9 owner, and as I own many third party VSTs, I have zero interest in Wavetable or any additional FX.
As far as I am concerned they do not add value to the Live 10 update.
I am sure that, like myself, people who already own a number of VSTs and FX will have a specific requirement when they wish to add yet another VST/FX and will therefore search out the exact item they need.

Sional wrote:As a Suite 9 owner, and as I own many third party VSTs, I have zero interest in Wavetable or any additional FX.
As far as I am concerned they do not add value to the Live 10 update.
I am sure that, like myself, people who already own a number of VSTs and FX will have a specific requirement when they wish to add yet another VST/FX and will therefore search out the exact item they need.

I must admit that I share your point of view. The new effects and the Wavetable don't bring much value to me personally. My upgrade price as Live 9 suite owner with discount is 200€, and I can't imagine this to be a good (or fair) deal when I think that I won't be using the new devices, the extended Push functionality, the multichannel audio, the MP3 file export and the most of new packs, except maybe Electric Keyboards if they really sound good. Turns out I'll pay 200€ for improvements alone, plus Max for Live, which I only use when I have to. The improvements are mostly good, however, it's only the price that I'll pay for the whole upgrade is a little confusing.

Andrejs

locojohn wrote: The improvements are mostly good, however, it's only the price that I'll pay for the whole upgrade is a little confusing.

I wonder if such responses is a sign Ableton need to offer a mid-sized version, the Live Essentials 10. What's that, a Live sans MFL? or with MFL but only 2 synths (from Suite) of your choice? And only the effects of the Standard? Right in between Standard and Suite in price. Just thinking in the open.

Stromkraft wrote:

locojohn wrote: The improvements are mostly good, however, it's only the price that I'll pay for the whole upgrade is a little confusing.

I wonder if such responses is a sign Ableton need to offer a mid-sized version, the Live Essentials 10. What's that, a Live sans MFL? or with MFL but only 2 synths of your choice? And only the effects of the Standard? Right in between Standard and Suite in price.

or Live Suite Essentials

Andrejs

Aykia wrote:I know that this is probably a noob question..

Just brought Live 9 Suite today, with the free Upgrade to 10 when It comes out. Just wondering if I should wait for 10 to come out before downloading all the sample content available now from Live 9. Would the Live 10 install re-install previous packs from Live 9? My question is, should I not download anything until 10 is released, or download all the musical content for live 9 now, then merge any new sounds/packs onto 10. Thanks

You should definitely download them now and start having fun. The packs are separate from Live 10 just like they are for Live 9, and if there are any updates to them when Live 10comes out you’ll see that in the Live 10 browser with the chance to download the updates.

Tarekith wrote:

Aykia wrote:I know that this is probably a noob question..

Just brought Live 9 Suite today, with the free Upgrade to 10 when It comes out. Just wondering if I should wait for 10 to come out before downloading all the sample content available now from Live 9. Would the Live 10 install re-install previous packs from Live 9? My question is, should I not download anything until 10 is released, or download all the musical content for live 9 now, then merge any new sounds/packs onto 10. Thanks

You should definitely download them now and start having fun. The packs are separate from Live 10 just like they are for Live 9, and if there are any updates to them when Live 10comes out you’ll see that in the Live 10 browser with the chance to download the updates.

Thank you for your help!

Would you recommend jumping right on live 10 as soon as I am able to get it? or wait a while for some bugs to be sorted out?

-Cheers

The conservative thing would be to wait a while, particularly if you are working in a context where a bad crash would be catastrophic.

10 is mostly stable now in beta - I have not had crashes at all as a matter of fact, though there are some glitches with the current version which can make it difficult to work with MIDI

I am therefore happy to do my normal messing around in the studio (I am finishing a song now) with 10.

BUT there's always a risk. If you were a professional, and using Live for an income, and you needed to meet a deadline or do a live performance & issues came up .. I'd definitely recommend holding on for a bit, say till 10.2

Aykia wrote:Would you recommend jumping right on live 10 as soon as I am able to get it? or wait a while for some bugs to be sorted out?

You can do both.
You'll be able to parallel install Live 9 and 10, use 9 for production and get a taste for 10 until you feel like switching over entirely. But keep your projects apart. Live 10 will open projects and sets made with older versions, but those won't open sets saved by 10.

dna598 wrote:

Emerald1968 wrote:Yeah capture is amazing. Stuff like this is one of the reasons i love Ableton. Companies like to throw around the word innovative but this actually is. And it really coalesces with Ableton's philosophy of facilitating the free flow of creativity.

This feature has been in Logic since v5, which is when i used it. Maybe even before then.... Just saying.

Yes notator had it long before that!

Sional wrote:As a Suite 9 owner, and as I own many third party VSTs, I have zero interest in Wavetable or any additional FX.
As far as I am concerned they do not add value to the Live 10 update.

What did I say? Let's see:

Stromkraft wrote:It [Wavetable] will not be appreciated by everyone, but I can see many that will use this one.

So, again it's not just about you, I'm not, and nor are you, speaking for anyone else than ourselves. I think my speculation is more on the mark though. I rave against the Live synths all the time and many people explain why they think the Suite synths are good alternatives. I don't claim no-one else cannot be using these (older) synths to create great music, just because how I feel.

But you also said

Stromkraft wrote: So what's the proper price for the update for all users? I don't know. But I can tell you that after having tried Wavetable I can see Suite buyers actually have one more strong point warranting the update price.

I'm quite shocked at all the posts about justifying the price for the upgrade. Ableton supports and updates each major Live version for a long time WITHOUT any additional subscription to pay. They constantly listen and communicate with the users' bugs and feature requests. They need a paycheck too. Some compensation for the years of work between each 'paid' upgrade released.

I'm just sayin'. All in all, the price is at, or below what I thought it'd be.

Sional wrote:But you also said

Stromkraft wrote: So what's the proper price for the update for all users? I don't know. But I can tell you that after having tried Wavetable I can see Suite buyers actually have one more strong point warranting the update price.

Stromkraft wrote:It [Wavetable] will not be appreciated by everyone, but I can see many that will use this one.

[unnecessary words deleted by Stromkraft]

EnjoyRC wrote:I'm quite shocked at all the posts about justifying the price for the upgrade. Ableton supports and updates each major Live version for a long time WITHOUT any additional subscription to pay. They constantly listen and communicate with the users' bugs and feature requests. They need a paycheck too. Some compensation for the years of work between each 'paid' upgrade released.

I'm just sayin'. All in all, the price is at, or below what I thought it'd be.

I'm not complaining really, but compare the cost to any other DAW and it's much higher for Suite. I don't think you can count Standard in this, at this point Suite has too many upgrade features that are not to be judged as "extras" the Max for Live LFO, convolution reverb etc.

I get it, lots of third party mouths to feed, but the simple fact is it's $199 per upgrade for Digital Performer and Logic for example, $129 for Reason, roughly $199 for Cubase etc. As far as Logic and DP are concerned they get the kind of free updates Live does for sure. MOTU recently completely upgraded their audio engine without a paid update etc.

All that said, Live is getting a lot of super important to the future of the program, SysEx and things that make sense for the concept of Live from other DAWs like Capture, MIDI editing features etc. and I would be really surprised if Live 10 didn't get a lot of comparable to DP's huge update type improvements mid cycle. If you're on board with Live this is a great upgrade, because it's mostly about improving what's there, with only a few "bling" type features like the new Wavetable and Echo plug ins. I would have liked to see MPE but I would be really truly surprised if it wasn't integrated later in the upgrade cycle.

Yeas Live upgrades cost more than other DAWs, but other DAWs don't have Max For Live, Glue, or AAS instruments built in, there is overhead to all that. I'll be upgrading before it's out of beta, but normally I wait for the first serious sale and get it for close to the price of other DAW upgrades, if the price is too much for you, you can wait and get the extra advantage of a less buggy upgrade.

Machinesworking wrote:

I don't think you can count Standard in this, at this point Suite has too many upgrade features that are not to be judged as "extras" the Max for Live LFO, convolution reverb etc.

Yeas Live upgrades cost more than other DAWs, but other DAWs don't have Max For Live, Glue, or AAS instruments built in,

Hey, Machinesworking!

I Agree with your first point, but the second one I am having trouble understanding.

What daw does not come with a suite of plugins nowadays? Like you said with Logic or Cubase the upgrade cost is much cheaper than Live and they are both feature rich daws. Logic has offered many free upgrades and comes with some excellent plugins and a wave table synth.

I personally dont see a major upgrade when I view the new specs of Live 10. Live has a session view, but is lacking so many features that are essential to a modern daw. At this point it seems wiser just to use Live Standard for the session view and another daw for the real production work.

It really makes me wonder what the people at Ableton are thinking for the future if they are so behind in the present. Live could at least use a major overhal to its 17 year old UI. Users have posted mock ups to give Ableton Ideas and Ableton just adds a few curves here and there and flattens the transport.

Still no editing of clips within session view.
Same UI that is no longer future or modern looking.
No chord tracks
No Modern tempo mapping (look at cubase or melodyne)
No Time signature detection
No plug ins to add variation to the tempo
No ARA
NO custom commands
No Take Tracks
No pitch correction

and then there is the lack of modern plugin content

No change to a very simple and strange take on amp simulation
No professional acoustic drum kit
No built in stereo reverb
No built in surround
No built in electronic drum kit.
No Modern Analog sounding synthesizers, AAS instruments were made in different era that required low cpu usage and really are not up to par
Almost every daw has a plug in that can emulate a ssl bus compressor.
Some people do find max for live to be very useful but should it really be used as a replacement for plugins that are integrated in other daws?
Not even slightly convincing acoustic instrument samples.
No change to the THREE band "Multi" band compression? Why couldn't they add unlimited bands?
No additional macro's added to racks
No upgrade to the heavily used rack system

All I am really seeing in this upgrade is the addition of capture recording, some browser tweeks and minor changes to the ui.

Ableton Live was the first daw I really clicked with and I loved it, it was the future and continued to be innovative for years, but it seems like all that came to a halt with the release of Live 9. I really hope they dont go down the Propellerheads Path.