forge wrote:Machinesworking wrote:robtronik wrote:You wonder why we are a powerhouse in so many things? Its not money or our military. Its our principles that we strive to live by that create the by-product of success.
This is why we want others to be like us. We live well compartively speaking and those that have similar governments and political systems do well compartively speaking as well.
Exactly why it sometimes is painful to be from the USA, the self righteous attitude that raises it's ugly head.
love my country, can't stand the hypocritical "we invented freedom" mindset that permeates the culture right now....
absolutely man - so strangely idiotic I decided to leave it alone....
er, then you didn't understand what I wrote if you took it as "invented freedom mindset". Its that we have it and want others to have it that don't. And yes, you can twist it as only a power thing and feel bad about it as an American if you want. You can even call it self righteous. But I would challenge you as an American to come up with an alternative plan about who we are and what we should be doing as a country given our size, influence, and way of live that clearly influences those around the globe. Either we are engaged or we are not in believing what and who we are.... I can't help it if you don't feel good about who we are as a country.
I just know that during my studies and travel abroad that I've formed an opinion about where we sit in the world, and isn't a bad place. Its actually quite damn good given our size, longevity to date, and opportunity and enfranchisement of people - relatively speaking given what has gone on in our modern world....
I did read your post. I apologize if I read it wrong and responded in kind.
I would also ask you to at least be correct in criticizing what I said, not
what you think I said.
Lot's of haterade drink in this forum when it comes to America. That's too bad because it needn't be that way. Notice that it doesn't flow the other way except for the obvious transgressors like North Korea, Iran, Iraq, etc.?
In general, I don't think you hear americans on this board talking about how fucked up the european nations are and their historical mistakes (or current ones depending on your political bent), or why they don't deserve to celebrate their existence in some manner. Discussion about all things american seems to result in americans having to defend or be on the defensive about criticism - and there isn't anything inherently wrong with that
except that I don't read much in the way of anything positive about the country either. The bias is there on this board, and I tend to think that it is mostly inexperienced, knee-jerk, reactions by people who are mostly informed in the only way they want to be informed - which is extreme leftism, socialism or downright unattainable utopianism.
IOW, my point is that we are not above criticism, but it would be nice if some of you realized that we aren't the bad guys on occasion. But I rarely get that message from some of you who will spin everything into a fucking conspiracy for power, oil, or world domination and what not.
I can't wait for the day when we withdraw from Iraq and have hopefully left them in a better place than they were under Saddam.
(of course, many of you will say: XXXX amount didn't die during his reign, etc. and this is not my point, my point is that they are a self determined people with enfranchisment, the right to self govern, etc. Of COURSE that takes a price. Its not easy to change a government and teach its people that responsibility. But it is, without question, a better alternative to fascism. etc. etc.)
If you want to believe that we are arrogant. Fine. But accuse of us having arrogance in the right areas - its not that we feel that we are better than anyone else, but we do believe that we have principles of government that are worth spreading to those less fortunate (IOW, places ruled by despotic fascist governments like those ruled by Batthist or Taliban or Nazis or Brown Shirts. Take your pick. I'm not talking about other democracies, people). If you can't see the difference, then I don't think you understand us that well.
Nor do you understand the stakes of what it takes to be free or at least try.
again, .02 and FYI and a
rob.
